(03 Sep 2014, 9:08 am)Michael wrote Ye, not many places they could go, as Stagecoach and Go North East both have established routes.

I do hope Arriva win LOT 1 from NEXUS, if it happens

(03 Sep 2014, 9:08 am)Michael wrote Ye, not many places they could go, as Stagecoach and Go North East both have established routes.

I do hope Arriva win LOT 1 from NEXUS, if it happens

(03 Sep 2014, 8:54 am)tyresmoke wrote The X21 will run off the 21 during the day, with the additional peak journeys being operated by Stockton (am) and Durham (pm)

(03 Sep 2014, 11:00 am)Jimmi wrote Will there be through connections between the 21 & X21.

(03 Sep 2014, 11:43 am)tyresmoke wrote It'll be the same bus so yes there will be. It will be direct to Ryhope I am told. The reason for the 22/24 numbers changing is we've swapped the routes over between Durham and Peterlee to give a direct link between Wheatley Hill/Thornley and Sunderland which has apparently been asked for lots!

(03 Sep 2014, 11:43 am)tyresmoke wrote It'll be the same bus so yes there will be. It will be direct to Ryhope I am told. The reason for the 22/24 numbers changing is we've swapped the routes over between Durham and Peterlee to give a direct link between Wheatley Hill/Thornley and Sunderland which has apparently been asked for lots!

(03 Sep 2014, 11:51 am)minibus1474 wrote Same arrangements that existed previously at Peterlee with 21/31 and 21A/31A ?

(03 Sep 2014, 1:10 pm)cbma06 wrote So if the X21 is hourly through the day coming off service 21, so where does Arriva get the extra bus to do the X21 every 30 minutes at peak times, will the extra X21 per hour come off the 21A?.

(03 Sep 2014, 11:43 am)tyresmoke wrote It'll be the same bus so yes there will be. It will be direct to Ryhope I am told. The reason for the 22/24 numbers changing is we've swapped the routes over between Durham and Peterlee to give a direct link between Wheatley Hill/Thornley and Sunderland which has apparently been asked for lots!

(03 Sep 2014, 11:43 am)tyresmoke wrote It'll be the same bus so yes there will be. It will be direct to Ryhope I am told. The reason for the 22/24 numbers changing is we've swapped the routes over between Durham and Peterlee to give a direct link between Wheatley Hill/Thornley and Sunderland which has apparently been asked for lots!

(03 Sep 2014, 9:04 am)Michael wrote Thanks, the loading's must be decent from Sunderland to Peterlee, if we getting a 3rd service there, be interesting to see what GNE do, when they see they have launched a 3rd service to Peterlee...

If these contracts go ahead, i really hope Arriva get Sunderland's lot!

(03 Sep 2014, 3:36 pm)Dan wrote From my sightings today, which reflects the same story as in previous discussion, the loadings are nothing more than mediocre on services 23/24 coming into Sunderland, though the latter does seem to be the better achiever of the two. With free periods being added to the mix at school, I get even more chance to see the goings-on on Stockton Road, and I can't say I've ever seen a full load on a Pulsar/Omnicity or standees on a Solo.

I was with Scott a few weeks back and he came off the X7 which was full, and the 23 he had seen came in with around 10 people (and that's before you consider that some of those passengers weren't fare paying). Whilst I'd suggest the service will definitely be breaking even, and it should be making a profit (however small or large that may be) at the end of the day (when you take higher peak time loadings into account), the loadings aren't high enough to justify bringing in a new express service to ease loadings, and I'd imagine that this is very much a stab in the dark, with the company anticipating they can bring a few passengers off the X7 following its success.

I've mentioned previously that competition between Arriva and Go North East is very much a vicious circle. We've seen that Go North East has been successful on the Tyne Valley, so this seems all too convenient... Whilst I wish Arriva the best of luck, my loyalties (obviously) lie with Go North East, and I hope that customers - especially the ones who are fare paying - don't decide to migrate from the X7 and onto the X21 (as this would scupper any plans to upgrade the service in terms of frequency - which would be an awful shame!)

(03 Sep 2014, 3:41 pm)Tom wrote Well I know I'll be using the X7 as the difference in price is £1.60. And I'd rather have a Citaro than a Omnicity.

(03 Sep 2014, 3:41 pm)Dan wrote Unusual for GNE's singles to be cheaper!

(03 Sep 2014, 3:36 pm)Dan wrote From my sightings today, which reflects the same story as in previous discussion, the loadings are nothing more than mediocre on services 23/24 coming into Sunderland, though the latter does seem to be the better achiever of the two. With free periods being added to the mix at school, I get even more chance to see the goings-on on Stockton Road, and I can't say I've ever seen a full load on a Pulsar/Omnicity or standees on a Solo.

I was with Scott a few weeks back and he came off the X7 which was full, and the 23 he had seen came in with around 10 people (and that's before you consider that some of those passengers weren't fare paying). Whilst I'd suggest the service will definitely be breaking even, and it should be making a profit (however small or large that may be) at the end of the day (when you take higher peak time loadings into account), the loadings aren't high enough to justify bringing in a new express service to ease loadings, and I'd imagine that this is very much a stab in the dark, with the company anticipating they can bring a few passengers off the X7 following its success.

I've mentioned previously that competition between Arriva and Go North East is very much a vicious circle. We've seen that Go North East has been successful on the Tyne Valley, so this seems all too convenient... Whilst I wish Arriva the best of luck, my loyalties (obviously) lie with Go North East, and I hope that customers - especially the ones who are fare paying - don't decide to migrate from the X7 and onto the X21 (as this would scupper any plans to upgrade the service in terms of frequency - which would be an awful shame!)

(03 Sep 2014, 3:55 pm)Jimmi wrote The 23 I saw arriving in Peterlee from Sunderland this morning had few seats left, also 1301 which left at around 1337 had a fair few passengers from when it was leaving Sunderland this afternoon and you can't judge the passenger numbers from just Park Lane as people travel locally like Easington to Sunderland or Horden to Peterlee. The 24 left with Sunderland with a decent amount of passengers just in front of the 23 I mentioned above.

The X7 I got on from Peterlee this morning had standees'

(03 Sep 2014, 3:58 pm)Dan wrote For an express service you can. If the service is going to be limited stop Sunderland - Ryhope - Peterlee, the loadings from Sunderland mean almost everything. The passengers can only be expected to migrate from their current services or the X7...

Dart 1301 came into Park Lane (about 6 mins late at 1600), with about six passengers. The bus notably sped past me and didn't stop!
The larger vehicle made the loadings seem even more disappointing.

(03 Sep 2014, 3:58 pm)Dan wrote For an express service you can. If the service is going to be limited stop Sunderland - Ryhope - Peterlee, the loadings from Sunderland mean almost everything. The passengers can only be expected to migrate from their current services or the X7...

Dart 1301 came into Park Lane (about 6 mins late at 1600), with about six passengers. The bus notably sped past me and didn't stop!
The larger vehicle made the loadings seem even more disappointing.

(03 Sep 2014, 4:05 pm)Tom wrote Reliability is a issue to - the 24 is often late.

(03 Sep 2014, 4:11 pm)Jimmi wrote For an express service you can but the 23/24 do carry more than the people than just the loads leaving Park Lane.

By any chance was 1301 late because its flaming awful, the revving just before it left Park Lane sounded terrible, I feel sorry for anyone who had to endure that on the 23 today, they are bad enough on the 64 so I'd hate to have that on a hard route like the 23.

(03 Sep 2014, 4:21 pm)Dan wrote This is the point I'm getting at though.

From personal experience, services 23/24 very rarely pick up passengers from Stockton Road until after Ryhope. With Go North East almost having the monopoly here, these passengers prefer to use their services opposed to Arriva's. Under 16s prefer to use Go North East buses because they're often turned away on Arriva's buses - I've seen two posts about this on Facebook lately, but unlike me, they didn't argue or complain to the company about it.

This means that Arriva are heavily relying upon the loadings from Sunderland when travelling to Peterlee, and from Peterlee when travelling to Sunderland. At the moment, in my opinion (as someone who gets to see the loadings throughout the day regularly), these loadings aren't fantastic. When services 23/24 leave Tyne & Wear, things change a little, and this accounts for your sightings in Peterlee where buses have had higher loadings.

Arriva cannot expect to bring in new customers with this service as they have no onward connections in Sunderland and very few in Peterlee (unless they're migrating from the X7 as a result of cheaper adult single fares); as such, the only way we can predict how well this service is going to do is by looking at the current loadings out of Sunderland.

It all seems to boil down to this vicious circle that I keep on mentioning, and testing to see if they burn their fingers or they do well... Competition can benefit passengers (if services aren't continuously facing cuts, as on the case on the Tyne Valley), but by and large, it doesn't (and this has recently been discussed elsewhere on the forum). I could understand if this service was being introduced to combat high loadings between the two destinations, but this is not the case...

(03 Sep 2014, 4:21 pm)Dan wrote This is the point I'm getting at though.

From personal experience, services 23/24 very rarely pick up passengers from Stockton Road until after Ryhope. With Go North East almost having the monopoly here, these passengers prefer to use their services opposed to Arriva's. Under 16s prefer to use Go North East buses because they're often turned away on Arriva's buses - I've seen two posts about this on Facebook lately, but unlike me, they didn't argue or complain to the company about it.

This means that Arriva are heavily relying upon the loadings from Sunderland when travelling to Peterlee, and from Peterlee when travelling to Sunderland. At the moment, in my opinion (as someone who gets to see the loadings throughout the day regularly), these loadings aren't fantastic. When services 23/24 leave Tyne & Wear, things change a little, and this accounts for your sightings in Peterlee where buses have had higher loadings.

Arriva cannot expect to bring in new customers with this service as they have no onward connections in Sunderland and very few in Peterlee (unless they're migrating from the X7 as a result of cheaper adult single fares); as such, the only way we can predict how well this service is going to do is by looking at the current loadings out of Sunderland.

It all seems to boil down to this vicious circle that I keep on mentioning, and testing to see if they burn their fingers or they do well... Competition can benefit passengers (if services aren't continuously facing cuts, as on the case on the Tyne Valley), but by and large, it doesn't (and this has recently been discussed elsewhere on the forum). I could understand if this service was being introduced to combat high loadings between the two destinations, but this is not the case...

(05 Sep 2014, 2:41 pm)cbma06 wrote "Our commercial team have said that we will be operating the following pattern of services in East Durham from Sunday 26th October 2014:

- Service 21/21A, as now between Darlington/Middlesbrough and Wingate, then to Peterlee via Wellfield Road, the A19 and Pennine Drive. The 21 will then continue to Sunderland as X21 via Little Thorpe, the A19 and Ryhope
- Service 22, as now every 30 minutes between Durham and Shotton, then direct to Peterlee via Burnhope Way and on to Sunderland via Easington Village, Dalton Park, New Seaham and Ryhope
- Service 23, as now every 30 minutes between Sunderland and Hartlepool, but with alterations to the timetable to fit with the new X21, 22 and 24
- Service 24, as now every 30 minutes between Durham and Shotton, then to Peterlee via Pennine Drive and Oakerside, then on to Hartlepool via Blackhall"

Looks like service 22 will be going direct to Peterlee bus station from A19 roundabout, service 21/21A will be going via Pennine Drive replacing service 22 in this area.

(05 Sep 2014, 2:41 pm)cbma06 wrote "Our commercial team have said that we will be operating the following pattern of services in East Durham from Sunday 26th October 2014:

- Service 21/21A, as now between Darlington/Middlesbrough and Wingate, then to Peterlee via Wellfield Road, the A19 and Pennine Drive. The 21 will then continue to Sunderland as X21 via Little Thorpe, the A19 and Ryhope
- Service 22, as now every 30 minutes between Durham and Shotton, then direct to Peterlee via Burnhope Way and on to Sunderland via Easington Village, Dalton Park, New Seaham and Ryhope
- Service 23, as now every 30 minutes between Sunderland and Hartlepool, but with alterations to the timetable to fit with the new X21, 22 and 24
- Service 24, as now every 30 minutes between Durham and Shotton, then to Peterlee via Pennine Drive and Oakerside, then on to Hartlepool via Blackhall"

Looks like service 22 will be going direct to Peterlee bus station from A19 roundabout, service 21/21A will be going via Pennine Drive replacing service 22 in this area.

(05 Sep 2014, 2:47 pm)Michael wrote Thanks for that cbma =)

Didn't Sunderland have a service to Darlington before?