Yeah get that, tbh when I was talking about having a uniform fleet this is when you badly need it. It works at Blyth as everything Max similar at Ashington as the X21/X22 just work by itself with the X14/15/18/20 doing the same up North which are all Max.

Could understand how it's a bit of a nightmare at Durham though where some are Max, some are Frequenta, some are Sapphire and some are nothing. Similar with Jesmond where you have eco, Sapphire, Max and normal and usually they're just all over the place.

It seems going forward that they've done this now though with the standard livery pretty much being Max - if they ever actually refurbish anything into it.

Given this a reply in a new thread over on the ANE section so that this thread can return to L94 discussion!

The issue with Durham, in my experience at least, is that they don't even seem to make an effort to route brand correctly. With Blyth and Jesmond you can tell in the morning that they've generally tried the best they can (even if it's just the brand, and specific route branding is still all over the place), but throughout the day they prioritise service punctuality levels over anything else. 

Durham always seem to just put out whatever they fancy. When I got the 6 the other day, both 7456 and 7494 were on there - neither even branded, let alone "Sapphire". 7519 and 7521, Sapphire E400s, were on the MAX 48/X46, alongside 7455, ONE(!) X46 B7TL and then a handful of single decks. The X12 (MAX) that day had, from Durham, two standard spec Pulsars (1409/1510), two Sapphire Pulsars (1517/1524) and a Streetlite (1596), and one MAX Pulsar (1482). This isn't one or two incorrectly allocated buses, it's leading drivers and depot management giving the bare minimum and having zero pride in the work they're doing.

Arriva Durham County, generally bar Stockton, have always seemed to operate at a lower standard than Northumbria have - be it in vehicle appearance, driver friendliness or pride in what they're doing. That's by no means to say Northumbria are always good at those things I've mentioned, but from a passengers perspective I always feel more welcomed by drivers north of the Tyne - and that the buses operated by those depots have a bit more TLC.

Finally, a thread where I can bash Arriva to my hearts content!

I'll start by saying that I lived in a GNE area for most of my life, only really moving into Arriva territory about 5 years ago, but even then still mainly used GNE. 

I think using GNE I've only ever had two bad experiences, admittedly one of them was a pretty bad experience (one of their drivers was very abusive to me and got the typical "we'll pass your comments onto the depot" response from customer service), but with Arriva their drivers just always seem to be miserable, and acting as thought they're being forced to work there.
I've been on several buses where drivers could barely speak English, and one had never heard of Tindale Crescent, even though they were driving the 6.
Drivers standing smoking at the door, even standing in the door smoking so they don't get wet when it's raining.

That's not to say they don't have any nice drivers, they do, but in my experience the ratio of good to bad just seems to be leaning far more to the bad side than it does with GNE.

As for the buses, I'd honestly be very surprised if any of them have seen some disinfectant during this crisis, they're still as dirty as they were before.

They seem to refurbish them and then forget about them, if a seat gets torn, they'll just put some duct tape on it rather than repair it properly, seat backs melted and covered in graffiti, you'll be lucky to find a USB port that hasn't either got paper wedged in it, or been completely destroyed.

The issue with Durham, in my experience at least, is that they don't even seem to make an effort to route brand correctly. With Blyth and Jesmond you can tell in the morning that they've generally tried the best they can (even if it's just the brand, and specific route branding is still all over the place), but throughout the day they prioritise service punctuality levels over anything else. 

Durham always seem to just put out whatever they fancy. When I got the 6 the other day, both 7456 and 7494 were on there - neither even branded, let alone "Sapphire". 7519 and 7521, Sapphire E400s, were on the MAX 48/X46, alongside 7455, ONE(!) X46 B7TL and then a handful of single decks. The X12 (MAX) that day had, from Durham, two standard spec Pulsars (1409/1510), two Sapphire Pulsars (1517/1524) and a Streetlite (1596), and one MAX Pulsar (1482). This isn't one or two incorrectly allocated buses, it's leading drivers and depot management giving the bare minimum and having zero pride in the work they're doing.

Arriva Durham County, generally bar Stockton, have always seemed to operate at a lower standard than Northumbria have - be it in vehicle appearance, driver friendliness or pride in what they're doing. That's by no means to say Northumbria are always good at those things I've mentioned, but from a passengers perspective I always feel more welcomed by drivers north of the Tyne - and that the buses operated by those depots have a bit more TLC.

This not to do with social distancing and trying to get deckers on the more popular routes and singles on the less. I can't answer as I don't know Durham too well but Blyth has been equally as bad lately to the stage that there's a 308 decker going out on the X10/X11 and a X10/X11 decker going out on the 308 at the same time.

It's not as noticeable up here though as everything is Max branded nowadays and tbf it's like this all year round. Never understood why Blyth don't ditch the individual Max branding it's not like they compete against each other at any point bar Cramlington Manor Walks, Haymarket and Blyth bus station.

I was down Durham the way other month thought and was shocked at how mankey some of the buses are it's definitely noticeable that. Remember when the Gemini's ran on the X12 and getting off one of Blyths and onto one of Durham's you'd think the buses we're 10 years apart in age. It's probably why I have very different opinions to Arriva to some on here.

This not to do with social distancing and trying to get deckers on the more popular routes and singles on the less. I can't answer as I don't know Durham too well but Blyth has been equally as bad lately to the stage that there's a 308 decker going out on the X10/X11 and a X10/X11 decker going out on the 308 at the same time.

It's not as noticeable up here though as everything is Max branded nowadays and tbf it's like this all year round. Never understood why Blyth don't ditch the individual Max branding it's not like they compete against each other at any point bar Cramlington Manor Walks, Haymarket and Blyth bus station.

I was down Durham the way other month thought and was shocked at how mankey some of the buses are it's definitely noticeable that. Remember when the Gemini's ran on the X12 and getting off one of Blyths and onto one of Durham's you'd think the buses we're 10 years apart in age. It's probably why I have very different opinions to Arriva to some on here.

Yeah, you wouldn't think they're the same company! 
Having the wrong vehicles on the route has been a thing forever, I wonder if it's a game they play where they see how far away they can get a vehicle from it's branded destination!

A fact. Finding Arriva drivers who are actually interested in the job they are doing and the customers they are carrying is a bit like looking for rocking horse s***. As for the standard and cleanliness of the vehicles, where does one start ? A complete lack of professionalism.

We've just endured another classic example of what I say. Dormanstown/Whitby allocated 7401 stunk of diesel (inside) when we boarded (X93 journey 1020 16/07/20) then limped painfully to Whitby, coming to a halt twice where the funds got worse. The driver said nothing, nor did anyone at Whitby where no-one would have known to change vehicles if someone hadn't asked ! Shameful but typical

The NSA's on this route rarely operate, indeed you could suggest that NSA's throughout the entire fleet have been a waste of time and money

I could go on.

A fact. Finding Arriva drivers who are actually interested in the job they are doing and the customers they are carrying is a bit like looking for rocking horse s***. As for the standard and cleanliness of the vehicles, where does one start ? A complete lack of professionalism.

We've just endured another classic example of what I say. Dormanstown/Whitby allocated 7401 stunk of diesel (inside) when we boarded (X93 journey 1020 16/07/20) then limped painfully to Whitby, coming to a halt twice where the funds got worse. The driver said nothing, nor did anyone at Whitby where no-one would have known to change vehicles if someone hadn't asked ! Shameful but typical

The NSA's on this route rarely operate, indeed you could suggest that NSA's throughout the entire fleet have been a waste of time and money

I could go on.

I forgot about Arriva's woeful NSA system. Not sure if it's the same up north, but I've yet to travel on an Arriva bus where you can hear the NSA over the engine noise! I think I mentioned this last week on a different thread, but the lady who does the voice just couldn't sound any less interested if she tried. It sounds like they were recorded last thing on a Friday afternoon. I'm sure if you could hear it over the engine, you'd hear the cleaners vacuum in the background! Plus, the displays are so dim you can't even read them.
Then again, that assumes the NSA is even functioning, I think it runs maybe 10% of the time on the 6!

Contrast that with GNE's NSA and there's a huge difference, as much as I complain about it (mainly because it annoys certain people on here), I think GNE's NSA is fantastic.

The entire standard (s) between the two operators - GNE v Arriva is immeasurable. No comparison in presentation and cleanliness and although I don't get the same level of contact and service experience, drivers inevitably well presented, courteous and happy to engage with customers.

Someone mentioned Arriva Durham ? A prize Arriva Durham ? A prize example of "we are bothered". The other day, had to do a trip to the city and my intended journey back operated X12.

The service arrived, Streetlite (??) 1599. It's driver duly collected his things and skunk away, end of duty. The vehicle then remained unattended for almost 15 minutes and would have remained so had it not been for the rather humourous intervention of two Arriva trainees who were scheduled to be route learning on that particular service. No-one had bothered to check that the driver for the service had failed to report for duty and likewise, no-one had bothered to organise a replacement. A classic example of just how Arriva don't perform

It got better on the eventual journey South when one of the "trainees" chose to go to sleep rather than do what he was supposed to be doing !!

Arriva through and through

To counter this there a number of drivers (and staff) who strive to deliver a decent service against a backdrop of a company that works with tight margins and puts the customer experience down the priority list. Many of these are the way they are because they get embittered by trying their hardest against this backdrop doing what can be a (very) demoralising job

I was down Durham the way other month thought and was shocked at how mankey some of the buses are it's definitely noticeable that. Remember when the Gemini's ran on the X12 and getting off one of Blyths and onto one of Durham's you'd think the buses we're 10 years apart in age. It's probably why I have very different opinions to Arriva to some on here.

Yep. Just to backup my comment on drivers - I had to get the X18 down from Berwick yesterday as I'd been up there over the weekend visiting family over the border. At Berwick Rail Station I had a 3-4 minute conversation with the driver prior to departure (he also looked up whether or not there'd be an X15 to connect with in Alnwick to make my journey quicker), then when we got to Alnwick he wished all passengers a safe and enjoyable remainder of their journey - even coming upstairs to make sure we were all okay, and letting us know our next driver would be along in a couple of minutes. 

Mainly using Ashington buses, even if majority of drivers wouldn't go that far, there are a good few who you can always have a quick conversation with when getting on/off. My experience with Durham drivers has always just been them grunting at whatever greeting/thank you I've given. 

Then looking at the buses - last week I had some things to do down in Durham, so I got the 43 through to Newcastle which was 7488 (while not Sapphire spec, it was clean with very presentable moquette and felt reasonably new inside), then a Durham Sapphire Streetlite (1596) down on the X12. The seats were dirty, there window ledges hadn't been tended to in a while, the plugs were broken and the emergency exit door had my head done in by Gateshead.

Similar to you, it's why I have a hugely different opinion on Arriva to most people. Even beyond that I could never imagine Durham, for example, managing to cope with running the X14/15/18 that Ashington do - their vehicles seem shot most of the time on town/city work.

There is no point in getting all excited for a 69 plate GNE bus when it drive past the bus stop with sorry not in service on the display.... presumably to make up lost time. Give me a battered, 52 plate, no NSA bus that comes when it says on the time table and get me to where i'm going!

There is no point in getting all excited for a 69 plate GNE bus when it drive past the bus stop with sorry not in service on the display.... presumably to make up lost time.  Give me a battered, 52 plate, no NSA bus that comes when it says on the time table and get me to where i'm going!

but its alright for a battered 52 plate with no NSA driving past with not in service on the display.

Unsure why the vehicle type would affect a bus running somewhere to make up for lost time...

My point is Citro5284 in my 30 odd years of using buses I'm yet to have an ARRIVA bus drive passed with NIS on to make up time.... or kick me off at the destination ( for example Gateshead to get on or even wait for another bus to continue journey to Newcastle.) This has happened to me more times than I can remember on service run BY GNE. So instead of investing in new buses maybe they should invest it other areas and maybe punter will come back to then. Quick poll in my office. No one cared what age the bus was, whether it had tables, whether it was x/lines ( no one bar me knew what this was LOL). They want a bus to turn up when its suppose to and get them to where they want to be with NO FUSS.

Yeah, you never know what's going to turn up on the Arriva 6, could literally be anything! 

Honestly, you rarely see GNE run vehicles with the wrong branding, if one of the branded vehicles isn't running, most of the time it's a corporate liveried one of an equivalent spec.
Then again not that long back I seemed to get more OmniDekkas than StreetDecks on the X21!

The average passenger isn't as enthusiastic as you and is probably happy the bus has shown up. Many a time I have had a Cathedral Solo turn up for my X45 in Newcastle during Rush-Hour and it's not to slate GNE but let's not be biased. 

In reference to your earlier post, the B7TL is still a decent bus, well the Wright bodied examples are. Arriva in London have lost far more contracts which affect the cascading of old stock to the provinces, whilst GAL, on the other hand, has gained many of Arriva London's contracts meaning they have fewer buses to cascade. Go-Ahead also lease their buses in London whilst Arriva outright own them. It makes sense to send them to the provinces to make the most money out of them while they can. Saying that following the latest round of tenders and Tfl's ever-changing commitments I'd expect more DB300s to head up North within the next 2 years to oust out any B7TLs.  They're not shiny and sparkling but for the most part, the buses still run on time. 

That awful new group livery shows that Arriva are not interested in providing an exhilarating bus ride but rather a reliable one that is cost-efficient.

The average passenger isn't as enthusiastic as you and is probably happy the bus has shown up. Many a time I have had a Cathedral Solo turn up for my X45 in Newcastle during Rush-Hour and it's not to slate GNE but let's not be biased. 

In reference to your earlier post, the B7TL is still a decent bus, well the Wright bodied examples are. Arriva in London have lost far more contracts which affect the cascading of old stock to the provinces, whilst GAL, on the other hand, has gained many of Arriva London's contracts meaning they have fewer buses to cascade. Go-Ahead also lease their buses in London whilst Arriva outright own them. It makes sense to send them to the provinces to make the most money out of them while they can. Saying that following the latest round of tenders and Tfl's ever-changing commitments I'd expect more DB300s to head up North within the next 2 years to oust out any B7TLs.  They're not shiny and sparkling but for the most part, the buses still run on time. 

That awful new group livery shows that Arriva are not interested in providing an exhilarating bus ride but rather a reliable one that is cost-efficient.

The main issue at Arriva as I see it is the impending sale of the group by DB that has dragged on for an age (2-3 years now?) and the (lack of) spending due to it being squeezed to an absolute minimum. Most op co’s seem to be struggling with reliability as a result. Certainly the NE fleet has not looked as bad as it has in the last 6 months or so for a long time. I would expect to see cascades one as stated above from London and elsewhere to replace the older fleet members... NW has just taken some E200s from London and I believe some newer ones are due for NE soon too. After all there’s some 15 year old Darts hanging on and much older DDs too of course.

Seen elsewhere that ex Flying Tiger Versas have been branded as Sapphire in Yorkshire. Feel like they're just taking the mick now, next up Sapphire Solo?

Arriva should ditch all their current branding and go with the following:

ArrivaX (For EXPRESS routes ONLY)
* Dark blue base coat (don't know about vinyls)
* Civic V3 with extra seating, SmartSeats (ADL only) or coach seats for any routes over 31 mile
* Tables on upper decks & wireless charging
* USB Charging Points & WiFi
* NSA's by Emma Hignett

Arriva Premium (For high patronage & popular non express routes, not branded as premium but different colour scheme)
* Silver & Purple
* Same internal spec as ArrivaX
* Spares for both ArrivaX & Arriva premium would be plain silver

Arriva Local (For secondary & local routes)
* Same teal colour as now
* Some vehicles with free WiFi and NSAs

Seen elsewhere that ex Flying Tiger Versas have been branded as Sapphire in Yorkshire. Feel like they're just taking the mick now, next up Sapphire Solo?

So assuming you think the X-Lines network is a joke aswell as there's Solos on the X20 or is it one rule for one and one for another...?

Arriva should ditch all their current branding and go with the following:

ArrivaX (For EXPRESS routes ONLY)
* Dark blue base coat (don't know about vinyls)
* Civic V3 with extra seating, SmartSeats (ADL only) or coach seats for any routes over 31 mile
* Tables on upper decks & wireless charging
* USB Charging Points & WiFi
* NSA's by Emma Hignett

Arriva Premium (For high patronage & popular non express routes, not branded as premium but different colour scheme)
* Silver & Purple
* Same internal spec as ArrivaX
* Spares for both ArrivaX & Arriva premium would be plain silver

Arriva Local (For secondary & local routes)
* Same teal colour as now
* Some vehicles with free WiFi and NSAs

Personally for Northumbria network I'd rather see branding and interior design on the route rather than patronage.

The X14, X15, X16, X18 and 685 should be one brand for long distance travel with features for passengers who typically will be on for an hour. More legroom, maybe tables, better seating etc.
The X7, X8, X9, X10, X11, X21, X22, 306 and 308 should be a brand for links to Newcastle from Blyth / Ashington / Tynemouth with features which a commuter would typically want. Something like Firstbus' Leedscity network
Then the rest 1, 2, 35, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 57, 58, X6 (probably missed some) under some form of local network branding but interior wise very similar to the band above.

All buses should have NSA, WiFi and USB Charging as standard though which I believe Arriva's current branding does anyway for WiFi and USB's.

So assuming you think the X-Lines network is a joke aswell as there's Solos on the X20 or is it one rule for one and one 

I’m not equating X-Lines and Sapphire as the same thing. That said, I do think tho X20 Solos are a weak link in the X-Lines brand. They look great but they over-promise on the outside and under-deliver on the inside. A car user might be tempted to give the bus a go by the shiny livery but would be let down by the ‘normal bus’ interior. They were a good first trail with the X-Lines concept but I think they should be swapped out for something more in keeping. Of course it’s been established they’re on their way out but maybe some extra mod cons and private plates on a few Citaros, playing on their Merc credentials, would have been an option?

Seen elsewhere that ex Flying Tiger Versas have been branded as Sapphire in Yorkshire. Feel like they're just taking the mick now, next up Sapphire Solo?

Likely done as they were not far off Sapphire spec to begin with, had Sapphire seats minus logos and WiFi, has wood effect flooring though. No clue what they'll be used on, rumours that the E200 MMCs are coming to the North East but Wakefield depot is also rumoured now too so who knows really.

Likely done as they were not far off Sapphire spec to begin with, had Sapphire seats minus logos and WiFi, has wood effect flooring though. No clue what they'll be used on, rumours that the E200 MMCs are coming to the North East but Wakefield depot is also rumoured now too so who knows really.

It just seems like confirmation that Sapphire is now just a spec checklist for vehicles, with nothing behind it. When Sapphire was first launched, it was a fully implemented concept - livery & mod cons bus also uniforms, marketing and detail cleaning. Also back then the seating, WiFi & USBs genuinely make Sapphire stand out, like the Darlington 7. Now those features are widely standard, the Sapphire spec should have moved with the times. 2020 Sapphire could have been maybe skylights, at leat phone cradle, push stop & light, tables, wireless charging?

I’d say the only Arriva route I can think of that still carries the ‘spirit’ of Sapphire is the 1 between Chester and Wrexham.

It just seems like confirmation that Sapphire is now just a spec checklist for vehicles, with nothing behind it. When Sapphire was first launched, it was a fully implemented concept - livery & mod cons bus also uniforms, marketing and detail cleaning. Also back then the seating, WiFi & USBs genuinely make Sapphire stand out, like the Darlington 7. Now those features are widely standard, the Sapphire spec should have moved with the times. 2020 Sapphire could have been maybe skylights, at leat phone cradle, push stop & light, tables, wireless charging?

I’d say the only Arriva route I can think of that still carries the ‘spirit’ of Sapphire is the 1 between Chester and Wrexham.

Been having this discussion on Facebook a few times recently and I can't help but feel many of these Premium brands like Sapphire, Platinum from National Express West Midlands/Coventry or Palladium in Blackpool are a bit outdated now as they aren't particularly special anymore, Blackpool in particular is a case of the whole fleet is Palladium now so where do you go from here? Will just be a case of adding little bits to buses with a brand that doesn't stand out anymore.

There are a few exceptions to where this has been done right IMO, such as Transdev Harrogate's 36 as it looks and feels pretty premium and there isn't a fleet full of identical buses in that area to that spec. I feel GNE somewhat get away with X-Lines particularly as it's currently a newly developed brand and IMO isn't too heavily emphasised on being 'premium' it's more geared towards the express elements of the routes and at least they haven't used a very drab grey colour either.

I'd just get rid of Sapphire now as it's somewhat meaningless in terms of being premium now, it's just another brand, I would ditch it and put everything in the new standard livery which although I'm not a fan of, it would at least look fresh and come across like some effort is being put in as quite a lot of the fleet is at a point where they look incredibly shabby now.

Been having this discussion on Facebook a few times recently and I can't help but feel many of these Premium brands like Sapphire, Platinum from National Express West Midlands/Coventry or Palladium in Blackpool are a bit outdated now as they aren't particularly special anymore, Blackpool in particular is a case of the whole fleet is Palladium now so where do you go from here? Will just be a case of adding little bits to buses with a brand that doesn't stand out anymore.

There are a few exceptions to where this has been done right IMO, such as Transdev Harrogate's 36 as it looks and feels pretty premium and there isn't a fleet full of identical buses in that area to that spec. I feel GNE somewhat get away with X-Lines particularly as it's currently a newly developed brand and IMO isn't too heavily emphasised on being 'premium' it's more geared towards the express elements of the routes and at least they haven't used a very drab grey colour either.

I'd just get rid of Sapphire now as it's somewhat meaningless in terms of being premium now, it's just another brand, I would ditch it and put everything in the new standard livery which although I'm not a fan of, it would at least look fresh and come across like some effort is being put in as quite a lot of the fleet is at a point where they look incredibly shabby now.

I agree with you on the Nat Ex/Blackpool front. The difference I guess with Blackpool is rather than making a two tier system they've improved the perception of bus travel generally across the town, which is possible in their position as a medium sized company in t self-contained region/network. It will be interesting to see if their strategy coverts to profit. Of course their objectives a a municipal rather than a corporation will be different anyway.

I'm not even sure it's a brand anymore. I'd say a brand is validated when it becomes the default reference name to the product by customers. I.E 'The Angel bus (21)' versus 'The Sapphire number 6'? Not sure.  Sub-brand or tag-line may be more appropriate.

Been having this discussion on Facebook a few times recently and I can't help but feel many of these Premium brands like Sapphire, Platinum from National Express West Midlands/Coventry or Palladium in Blackpool are a bit outdated now as they aren't particularly special anymore, Blackpool in particular is a case of the whole fleet is Palladium now so where do you go from here? Will just be a case of adding little bits to buses with a brand that doesn't stand out anymore.

There are a few exceptions to where this has been done right IMO, such as Transdev Harrogate's 36 as it looks and feels pretty premium and there isn't a fleet full of identical buses in that area to that spec. I feel GNE somewhat get away with X-Lines particularly as it's currently a newly developed brand and IMO isn't too heavily emphasised on being 'premium' it's more geared towards the express elements of the routes and at least they haven't used a very drab grey colour either.

I'd just get rid of Sapphire now as it's somewhat meaningless in terms of being premium now, it's just another brand, I would ditch it and put everything in the new standard livery which although I'm not a fan of, it would at least look fresh and come across like some effort is being put in as quite a lot of the fleet is at a point where they look incredibly shabby now.

Sapphire was always going to be a failure, because it's Arriva! They start something, then forget about it. 
They've got more standard liveries floating about than GNE have brands!

I'm not even sure it's a brand anymore. I'd say a brand is validated when it becomes the default reference name to the product by customers. I.E 'The Angel bus (21)' versus 'The Sapphire number 6'? Not sure.  Sub-brand or tag-line may be more appropriate.

Exactly, I think the only route that actually gets known by it's brand is the Angel.
I mean, I personally refer to routes by the brand all the time, like I would say "I'm getting the Crusader" or "I'm getting the Coaster", but I don't think the average person does.

As for the 'Sapphire 6', I hear more people refer to it as 'the Cockfield' than I do anything else. I only refer to it as the Sapphire 6 (or more commonly just the Arriva 6) on here to distinguish it from the GNE 6.