Future of the ‘Big Three’
Future of the ‘Big Three’
(06 Jan 2022, 7:48 am)54APhotograph Arriva have been on the market for three years, DB want rid of all of it, Bus, Trains the whole shooting match. The big problem is valuation. While it may look like an attractive proposition to Transdev in enthusiast eyes, it isn't. The fleet is ageing and needs massive investment, very possibly more in £s than the actual worth of the shares. Running a company down to the bone is never a good way of selling, despite that being ever so often the case.
(06 Jan 2022, 7:48 am)54APhotograph Arriva have been on the market for three years, DB want rid of all of it, Bus, Trains the whole shooting match. The big problem is valuation. While it may look like an attractive proposition to Transdev in enthusiast eyes, it isn't. The fleet is ageing and needs massive investment, very possibly more in £s than the actual worth of the shares. Running a company down to the bone is never a good way of selling, despite that being ever so often the case.
Stagecoach. While Newcastle and Sunderland maybe doing ( or the busways side of things ) the Hartlepool and Stockton side ( Transit side of things) seem to be getting nothing. Have heard from various people that the recent investment at Stockton in 2019 of the Enviro 200 MMC are been swapped with older Man’s from Newcastle while Hartlepool fleet is mostly falling to bits. So while on paper Stagecoach might be doing well with the merger with National Express they clearly don’t have any budget to buy new buses resulting in Stockton and Especially Hartlepool having fleets with the majority of buses been 16 - 18 years old. So clearly they is something not right.
Arriva. Owners don’t care and clearly don’t want to invest. They more bothered about trying to get rid completely and want as much as possible for it by selling the lot in one go instead of the more sensible approach of selling bits off separately.
Go North east. While they do invest they doing it to paper over the cracks it seems. Constantly changing services it seems constant repaints and pointless rebrands and completely giving up on the south of the region with only the X10 covering the south of the region now. Darlington and Hartlepool completely forgotten about and buses on certain services getting upgrades then downgraded within a year it does seem they don’t have much of a clue with what they doing. Despite the opportunity to expand in the south of region and link up with East Yorkshire they seemingly have decided against that.
So all 3 companies seem to not really know what they doing and at the moment it seems nothing will really change this year if anything things might get worse and not better. Hopefully I be proved wrong though.
Are there going to be any changes from the Stagecoach/National Express merger?
Arriva isn't really much use as they only have the 553 to Wallsend and no Metrocentre service. Be good to see investment and rebranding under new ownership.
Go North East isn't doing very well, repaints and rebrands, upgrades and downgrades, it's crazy.
(09 Jan 2022, 10:09 pm)OrangeArrow49 Are there going to be any changes from the Stagecoach/National Express merger?Is the success of operators in the region determined by serving Wallsend and the Metrocentre?
Arriva isn't really much use as they only have the 553 to Wallsend and no Metrocentre service. Be good to see investment and rebranding under new ownership.
Go North East isn't doing very well, repaints and rebrands, upgrades and downgrades, it's crazy.
(09 Jan 2022, 10:09 pm)OrangeArrow49 Are there going to be any changes from the Stagecoach/National Express merger?Is the success of operators in the region determined by serving Wallsend and the Metrocentre?
Arriva isn't really much use as they only have the 553 to Wallsend and no Metrocentre service. Be good to see investment and rebranding under new ownership.
Go North East isn't doing very well, repaints and rebrands, upgrades and downgrades, it's crazy.
(09 Jan 2022, 10:27 pm)peter Is the success of operators in the region determined by serving Wallsend and the Metrocentre?Yes and you're nothing if you don't serve Kingston Park, so Arriva must be bad!
(09 Jan 2022, 10:27 pm)peter Is the success of operators in the region determined by serving Wallsend and the Metrocentre?
(09 Jan 2022, 10:27 pm)peter Is the success of operators in the region determined by serving Wallsend and the Metrocentre?
(09 Jan 2022, 11:27 pm)OrangeArrow49 I just meant they are no use on their own as they don't serve 2 key areas (despite having a Gateshead service and North Tyneside services) the 553 is a good start for a Wallsend service and they could run a service via Metrocentre.
(09 Jan 2022, 11:27 pm)OrangeArrow49 I just meant they are no use on their own as they don't serve 2 key areas (despite having a Gateshead service and North Tyneside services) the 553 is a good start for a Wallsend service and they could run a service via Metrocentre.
(09 Jan 2022, 11:42 pm)mb134 Eh?
First off, I'd hardly define the MetroCentre as a key area in the current climate.
Second, by that logic Stagecoach are screwed because they don't serve any of Northumberland or Durham, and GNE have no chance due to only having one service to the mighty Kingston Park.
(09 Jan 2022, 11:42 pm)mb134 Eh?
First off, I'd hardly define the MetroCentre as a key area in the current climate.
Second, by that logic Stagecoach are screwed because they don't serve any of Northumberland or Durham, and GNE have no chance due to only having one service to the mighty Kingston Park.
(06 Jan 2022, 3:59 am)streetdeckfanQuote:It obviously must be cheaper for them to outsource the running of the NatEx services or they would have already been running them by themselves. I can't imagine it being immensely profitable for GNE?
As far as i am aware the NX unit based out of CLS is the most profitable unit at the depot since the unit has been scaled back massively since lockdown, Not many vehicles and drivers anymore also with the core routes running now i.e 426/133/172 and very little in the ways of delays or cancellations due to vehicles not being available(quite common pre-lockdown), also with the unit receiving a few awards from NX since services came back in 2021 I personally can’t see GNE losing any contract with NX anytime soon.
(06 Jan 2022, 3:59 am)streetdeckfanQuote:It obviously must be cheaper for them to outsource the running of the NatEx services or they would have already been running them by themselves. I can't imagine it being immensely profitable for GNE?
As far as i am aware the NX unit based out of CLS is the most profitable unit at the depot since the unit has been scaled back massively since lockdown, Not many vehicles and drivers anymore also with the core routes running now i.e 426/133/172 and very little in the ways of delays or cancellations due to vehicles not being available(quite common pre-lockdown), also with the unit receiving a few awards from NX since services came back in 2021 I personally can’t see GNE losing any contract with NX anytime soon.
(09 Jan 2022, 11:51 pm)OrangeArrow49 Hence why I travel GNE.Actually, Arriva serve quite a big area of Wallsend. The 51/51A serves north Wallsend to Newcastle / Whitley Bay and the 306 /308 serve the Coast Road corridor and Battle Hill. GNE, Stagecoach and the Metro serve the town centre and Howdon pretty well I would say.
My point was serving part (Gateshead and North Tyneside) and Metrocentre and Wallsend make sense within that network.
Arriva running a service to Wallsend more regularly and serving Metrocentre, I would probably use Arriva sometimes for Tynemouth, North Shields, Whitley Bay, Killingworth, Wallsend, Metrocentre, Gateshead, Gosforth and Fenham etc.
(09 Jan 2022, 11:51 pm)OrangeArrow49 Hence why I travel GNE.Actually, Arriva serve quite a big area of Wallsend. The 51/51A serves north Wallsend to Newcastle / Whitley Bay and the 306 /308 serve the Coast Road corridor and Battle Hill. GNE, Stagecoach and the Metro serve the town centre and Howdon pretty well I would say.
My point was serving part (Gateshead and North Tyneside) and Metrocentre and Wallsend make sense within that network.
Arriva running a service to Wallsend more regularly and serving Metrocentre, I would probably use Arriva sometimes for Tynemouth, North Shields, Whitley Bay, Killingworth, Wallsend, Metrocentre, Gateshead, Gosforth and Fenham etc.
(09 Jan 2022, 11:51 pm)OrangeArrow49 Hence why I travel GNE.
My point was serving part (Gateshead and North Tyneside) and Metrocentre and Wallsend make sense within that network.
Arriva running a service to Wallsend more regularly and serving Metrocentre, I would probably use Arriva sometimes for Tynemouth, North Shields, Whitley Bay, Killingworth, Wallsend, Metrocentre, Gateshead, Gosforth and Fenham etc.
(09 Jan 2022, 11:51 pm)OrangeArrow49 Hence why I travel GNE.
My point was serving part (Gateshead and North Tyneside) and Metrocentre and Wallsend make sense within that network.
Arriva running a service to Wallsend more regularly and serving Metrocentre, I would probably use Arriva sometimes for Tynemouth, North Shields, Whitley Bay, Killingworth, Wallsend, Metrocentre, Gateshead, Gosforth and Fenham etc.
(10 Jan 2022, 11:18 am)MurdnunoC Neither Metrocentre or Wallsend would make sense in that network. Wallsend to Newcastle is already served by Go North East, Stagecoach and the Tyne and Wear Metro. Where is the business case for yet another operator to do introduce a similar route?
Metrocentre hasn't had a direct Arriva service from Newcastle since around 2009/10. Admittedly, I would have pushed for an Arriva service from Newcastle to Metrocentre back then as I would have assumed some passengers might have used the 602 after alighting at the Haymarket. However 13 or 14 years have passed and Arriva haven't been in any hurry introduce a replacement suggesting that through travel was minimal at best. This left Arriva with only one service to the Metrocentre, the X24 from Durham, which was withdrawn around 6 years ago (perhaps sooner) due to low usage. To summarise, there doesn't seem to be much of a business case to serve Metrocentre either.
Fenham doesn't have much of an Arriva service either. If we are classing the West Road as Fenham, the Arriva frequency of the 685 is approximately once every two hours. Can't see many people sitting around waiting for that, can you?
(10 Jan 2022, 11:18 am)MurdnunoC Neither Metrocentre or Wallsend would make sense in that network. Wallsend to Newcastle is already served by Go North East, Stagecoach and the Tyne and Wear Metro. Where is the business case for yet another operator to do introduce a similar route?
Metrocentre hasn't had a direct Arriva service from Newcastle since around 2009/10. Admittedly, I would have pushed for an Arriva service from Newcastle to Metrocentre back then as I would have assumed some passengers might have used the 602 after alighting at the Haymarket. However 13 or 14 years have passed and Arriva haven't been in any hurry introduce a replacement suggesting that through travel was minimal at best. This left Arriva with only one service to the Metrocentre, the X24 from Durham, which was withdrawn around 6 years ago (perhaps sooner) due to low usage. To summarise, there doesn't seem to be much of a business case to serve Metrocentre either.
Fenham doesn't have much of an Arriva service either. If we are classing the West Road as Fenham, the Arriva frequency of the 685 is approximately once every two hours. Can't see many people sitting around waiting for that, can you?
(10 Jan 2022, 11:18 am)MurdnunoC Neither Metrocentre or Wallsend would make sense in that network. Wallsend to Newcastle is already served by Go North East, Stagecoach and the Tyne and Wear Metro. Where is the business case for yet another operator to do introduce a similar route?
Metrocentre hasn't had a direct Arriva service from Newcastle since around 2009/10. Admittedly, I would have pushed for an Arriva service from Newcastle to Metrocentre back then as I would have assumed some passengers might have used the 602 after alighting at the Haymarket. However 13 or 14 years have passed and Arriva haven't been in any hurry introduce a replacement suggesting that through travel was minimal at best. This left Arriva with only one service to the Metrocentre, the X24 from Durham, which was withdrawn around 6 years ago (perhaps sooner) due to low usage. To summarise, there doesn't seem to be much of a business case to serve Metrocentre either.
Fenham doesn't have much of an Arriva service either. If we are classing the West Road as Fenham, the Arriva frequency of the 685 is approximately once every two hours. Can't see many people sitting around waiting for that, can you?
(10 Jan 2022, 11:18 am)MurdnunoC Neither Metrocentre or Wallsend would make sense in that network. Wallsend to Newcastle is already served by Go North East, Stagecoach and the Tyne and Wear Metro. Where is the business case for yet another operator to do introduce a similar route?
Metrocentre hasn't had a direct Arriva service from Newcastle since around 2009/10. Admittedly, I would have pushed for an Arriva service from Newcastle to Metrocentre back then as I would have assumed some passengers might have used the 602 after alighting at the Haymarket. However 13 or 14 years have passed and Arriva haven't been in any hurry introduce a replacement suggesting that through travel was minimal at best. This left Arriva with only one service to the Metrocentre, the X24 from Durham, which was withdrawn around 6 years ago (perhaps sooner) due to low usage. To summarise, there doesn't seem to be much of a business case to serve Metrocentre either.
Fenham doesn't have much of an Arriva service either. If we are classing the West Road as Fenham, the Arriva frequency of the 685 is approximately once every two hours. Can't see many people sitting around waiting for that, can you?