Vehicle investment/refurbishment, bus specification & brand delivery
Vehicle investment/refurbishment, bus specification & brand delivery
(19 Jul 2020, 6:40 pm)L469 YVK I have to agree with Dan on this one. Arriva's MAX services should've been what GoNE's X-Lines services are.
I don't agree with everything GoNE do but as a whole, they do a decent job. At least "X-Lines" means "X-Lines" unlike Arriva who think a 52 plate tarted up ex-London B7TL rocked up on stand at Blyth ready to take the X7/X8/X9/X10/X11 is acceptable.
Stagecoach don't have an exactly new fleet but most of their Newcastle routes are basically hop on-hop off and although would benefit from some of the creature comforts, don't exactly need them. And Stagecoach keep their fleet in good condition too. I'm sure that if Stagecoach (and or GoNE) for that matter got a slice of the pie in Northumberland if Arriva got sold in divisions that they'd put some decent vehicles on the express routes to Newcastle.
(19 Jul 2020, 6:59 pm)mb134 While far from ideal, the B7TLs on those services have been refurbed to a good standard (and certainly don't feel their age inside) and meet the advertised spec. Not all of those routes will justify new vehicles, particularly the X9 which is usually quite quiet. If the vehicles are reliable, which I'm told they generally are, then I don't see a huge issue with using them on services which don't command new vehicles (or onto the 306, for example, to provide additional capacity).
Outside of the NE, Transdev are a particularly good example of refurbing old buses and putting them to task on branded routes. 2003 B7TLs branded for their "CityZap" services.
(19 Jul 2020, 6:40 pm)L469 YVK I have to agree with Dan on this one. Arriva's MAX services should've been what GoNE's X-Lines services are.
I don't agree with everything GoNE do but as a whole, they do a decent job. At least "X-Lines" means "X-Lines" unlike Arriva who think a 52 plate tarted up ex-London B7TL rocked up on stand at Blyth ready to take the X7/X8/X9/X10/X11 is acceptable.
Stagecoach don't have an exactly new fleet but most of their Newcastle routes are basically hop on-hop off and although would benefit from some of the creature comforts, don't exactly need them. And Stagecoach keep their fleet in good condition too. I'm sure that if Stagecoach (and or GoNE) for that matter got a slice of the pie in Northumberland if Arriva got sold in divisions that they'd put some decent vehicles on the express routes to Newcastle.
(19 Jul 2020, 6:59 pm)mb134 While far from ideal, the B7TLs on those services have been refurbed to a good standard (and certainly don't feel their age inside) and meet the advertised spec. Not all of those routes will justify new vehicles, particularly the X9 which is usually quite quiet. If the vehicles are reliable, which I'm told they generally are, then I don't see a huge issue with using them on services which don't command new vehicles (or onto the 306, for example, to provide additional capacity).
Outside of the NE, Transdev are a particularly good example of refurbing old buses and putting them to task on branded routes. 2003 B7TLs branded for their "CityZap" services.
(19 Jul 2020, 7:12 pm)streetdeckfan I have to disagree with you there slightly, it would be like me ordering a luxury taxi and the driver turning up in an 02 Audi A4, sure it still runs, and nice inside, but it's not what I wanted.
Now, in Arriva's case, they're not really promising that much, but with GNE having things like 'as posh as your car' stuck on the back of the bus, it's clear they're wanting to go for something a bit 'fancier' than refurbed 15 year old buses like Arriva do.
(19 Jul 2020, 7:12 pm)streetdeckfan I have to disagree with you there slightly, it would be like me ordering a luxury taxi and the driver turning up in an 02 Audi A4, sure it still runs, and nice inside, but it's not what I wanted.
Now, in Arriva's case, they're not really promising that much, but with GNE having things like 'as posh as your car' stuck on the back of the bus, it's clear they're wanting to go for something a bit 'fancier' than refurbed 15 year old buses like Arriva do.
Some interesting points throughout these conversations.
Dan mentioned growth due to vehicle allocations. I'm sure there are examples of this happening, just as there will be examples of numbers stagnating or not growing.
The 25 was hourly in its previous incarnation as the 725 (allocated the same vehicles as the 723, 231 etc) . It changed to the X25 at some point and recieved the Loylnes (still in their pink colour scheme from their days on the 21) and a brand name tied to the Bobby Robson charity.
Numbers clearly didn't grow to the levels anticipated (marketing and promotion done on the cheap perhaps?), the X prefix was dropped and it continued, with a mixed allocation of vehicles - often older Vxxx ERG Solars, having the same stopping arrangements (as far as I'm aware), as it did as the X25.
Trips were reduced and if there was a decker allocated, it was generally because of interworking with scholars.
Within that same period, the new housing development in Birtley was progressing. An ideal opportunity to grow and develop the route, pushing it to a greater frequency and offering it as an alternative to the Durham Road services.
Except, nothing happened. It was kept as a second tier service.
Whether punters on Portobello Road or Portmeads look on the 21 with envy, whether they don't bother with the 25 due to it using older vehicles or because of its frequency - only they can tell the powers that be.
As it can be quicker boarding one of the regular 21 or X21 services and walking up or hoping to land on an 82, maybe there are some clues there.
Ditto, for those living in Eighton Banks and the plethora of services to Wrekenton, before a short walk for the final leg.
There have already been points made about the people of Barley Mow and Vigo not using the bus to the QE. Timings, frequency and cost will just be some of the reasons they travel to/from the hospital in car or taxi and not bus. Im yet to see or hear of any positive pro-active or reactive measures to any drop in numbers on the 25 or other services. Just the traditional older vehicle allocation, lower frequencies or removing of the connections passengers had.
There's many a reason these services are less popular and a half hearted push in the past, isn't suddenly going to fix the service or attract additional punters. Needless to say the lack of pushing since the Bobby Robson branded Loylnes were carted off elsewhere, won't have been any help.
I posted elsewhere following on from Rob44's post about the 25 stopping at the other side of Gateshead Interchange to the 21. Yet there's nothing that I can see or that I'm aware of, that lets punters know of that alternative.
Oh and to keep it relevant to the initial subject.
Those L94's should have gone a good while back imo and if the eminox upgrade programme had been managed differently, maybe they would have been.
The allocation of L94's on the 194 when new, was what re-ignited my interest in public transport again. Despite working in transport at the time, it wasnt something which floated my boat on a personal level. The L94's changed that.
However, I'm not sure their durability from a passenger perspective sustained itself as long as they were designed to.
(19 Jul 2020, 7:27 pm)mb134 But then you've just justified why Arriva can use 52/03 plates on MAX services, despite your taxi analogy.
MAX was never claimed to be luxury, instead it was to promote interurban services and happened to be specced with e-leather seating, WiFi (and power on later refurbs).
As a comparison - the Consett express services using the ex-dealer stock and ex-London B9TLs have more recent vehicles yet worse spec. I know I'd prefer more comfortable seating than a newer bus. Nobody is saying 52-plate B7s are the epitome of luxury buses, but to anyone other than an enthusiast they'll likely be happy with the interior spec and not give a toss about the age unless the reliability is poor.
This thread is now getting *very* off topic mind.
(19 Jul 2020, 7:27 pm)mb134 But then you've just justified why Arriva can use 52/03 plates on MAX services, despite your taxi analogy.
MAX was never claimed to be luxury, instead it was to promote interurban services and happened to be specced with e-leather seating, WiFi (and power on later refurbs).
As a comparison - the Consett express services using the ex-dealer stock and ex-London B9TLs have more recent vehicles yet worse spec. I know I'd prefer more comfortable seating than a newer bus. Nobody is saying 52-plate B7s are the epitome of luxury buses, but to anyone other than an enthusiast they'll likely be happy with the interior spec and not give a toss about the age unless the reliability is poor.
This thread is now getting *very* off topic mind.
(19 Jul 2020, 7:34 pm)streetdeckfan That's the point I was trying to make!
It's all about perception, like I say, if GNE are pushing the X-Lines brand as being 'premium' then you'd better bloody hope they have some fancy new buses on them. If you're waiting for the X21 expecting to get a bus with WiFi and USB, and an old, leaky OmniDekka turns up, you're not going to be happy!
Plus, X-Lines is basically Arriva's Sapphire but on their MAX routes, so to compare it directly to MAX is a bit cheeky IMO.
(19 Jul 2020, 7:34 pm)streetdeckfan That's the point I was trying to make!
It's all about perception, like I say, if GNE are pushing the X-Lines brand as being 'premium' then you'd better bloody hope they have some fancy new buses on them. If you're waiting for the X21 expecting to get a bus with WiFi and USB, and an old, leaky OmniDekka turns up, you're not going to be happy!
Plus, X-Lines is basically Arriva's Sapphire but on their MAX routes, so to compare it directly to MAX is a bit cheeky IMO.
(19 Jul 2020, 7:44 pm)mb134 This is why Belmont need to seriously sort themselves out. They have multiple Sapphire routes yet their leading drivers clearly have absolutely no clue what buses are branded for what - though they've been a complete joke for years to be honest. Contrast that to, for example, Ashington who virtually always have their X21/22 fully Sapphire allocated.
GNE are always spot on with allocations for the most part, though I wonder what punters on the 21 and Cobalt services are making of the open-toppers...
(19 Jul 2020, 7:44 pm)mb134 This is why Belmont need to seriously sort themselves out. They have multiple Sapphire routes yet their leading drivers clearly have absolutely no clue what buses are branded for what - though they've been a complete joke for years to be honest. Contrast that to, for example, Ashington who virtually always have their X21/22 fully Sapphire allocated.
GNE are always spot on with allocations for the most part, though I wonder what punters on the 21 and Cobalt services are making of the open-toppers...
(19 Jul 2020, 7:44 pm)mb134 This is why Belmont need to seriously sort themselves out. They have multiple Sapphire routes yet their leading drivers clearly have absolutely no clue what buses are branded for what - though they've been a complete joke for years to be honest. Contrast that to, for example, Ashington who virtually always have their X21/22 fully Sapphire allocated.
GNE are always spot on with allocations for the most part, though I wonder what punters on the 21 and Cobalt services are making of the open-toppers...
(19 Jul 2020, 8:00 pm)streetdeckfan Yeah, you never know what's going to turn up on the Arriva 6, could literally be anything!
Honestly, you rarely see GNE run vehicles with the wrong branding, if one of the branded vehicles isn't running, most of the time it's a corporate liveried one of an equivalent spec.
Then again not that long back I seemed to get more OmniDekkas than StreetDecks on the X21!
(19 Jul 2020, 7:44 pm)mb134 This is why Belmont need to seriously sort themselves out. They have multiple Sapphire routes yet their leading drivers clearly have absolutely no clue what buses are branded for what - though they've been a complete joke for years to be honest. Contrast that to, for example, Ashington who virtually always have their X21/22 fully Sapphire allocated.
GNE are always spot on with allocations for the most part, though I wonder what punters on the 21 and Cobalt services are making of the open-toppers...
(19 Jul 2020, 8:00 pm)streetdeckfan Yeah, you never know what's going to turn up on the Arriva 6, could literally be anything!
Honestly, you rarely see GNE run vehicles with the wrong branding, if one of the branded vehicles isn't running, most of the time it's a corporate liveried one of an equivalent spec.
Then again not that long back I seemed to get more OmniDekkas than StreetDecks on the X21!
(19 Jul 2020, 10:34 pm)Storx tbf this is an operational choice at Blyth and Newcastle and I assume it's the same in Durham to keep buses on time or running. It's why Arriva should never brand routes as it doesn't work but personally I prefer it this way rather than curtailing services short at Gateshead or the Metro Centre or running around in threes like Stagecoach. I could understand for those into branding why they'd hate it though.
(19 Jul 2020, 10:34 pm)Storx tbf this is an operational choice at Blyth and Newcastle and I assume it's the same in Durham to keep buses on time or running. It's why Arriva should never brand routes as it doesn't work but personally I prefer it this way rather than curtailing services short at Gateshead or the Metro Centre or running around in threes like Stagecoach. I could understand for those into branding why they'd hate it though.
(19 Jul 2020, 10:44 pm)streetdeckfan It's not really the branding that gets me, it's the putting low spec vehicles on routes that are advertised as having certain features like USB and WiFi.
(19 Jul 2020, 10:44 pm)streetdeckfan It's not really the branding that gets me, it's the putting low spec vehicles on routes that are advertised as having certain features like USB and WiFi.
Storx
Yeah get that, tbh when I was talking about having a uniform fleet this is when you badly need it. It works at Blyth as everything Max similar at Ashington as the X21/X22 just work by itself with the X14/15/18/20 doing the same up North which are all Max.
Could understand how it's a bit of a nightmare at Durham though where some are Max, some are Frequenta, some are Sapphire and some are nothing. Similar with Jesmond where you have eco, Sapphire, Max and normal and usually they're just all over the place.
It seems going forward that they've done this now though with the standard livery pretty much being Max - if they ever actually refurbish anything into it.
Storx
Yeah get that, tbh when I was talking about having a uniform fleet this is when you badly need it. It works at Blyth as everything Max similar at Ashington as the X21/X22 just work by itself with the X14/15/18/20 doing the same up North which are all Max.
Could understand how it's a bit of a nightmare at Durham though where some are Max, some are Frequenta, some are Sapphire and some are nothing. Similar with Jesmond where you have eco, Sapphire, Max and normal and usually they're just all over the place.
It seems going forward that they've done this now though with the standard livery pretty much being Max - if they ever actually refurbish anything into it.
(19 Jul 2020, 10:57 pm)Storx Yeah get that, tbh when I was talking about having a uniform fleet this is when you badly need it. It works at Blyth as everything Max similar at Ashington as the X21/X22 just work by itself with the X14/15/18/20 doing the same up North which are all Max.Given this a reply in a new thread over on the ANE section so that this thread can return to L94 discussion!
Could understand how it's a bit of a nightmare at Durham though where some are Max, some are Frequenta, some are Sapphire and some are nothing. Similar with Jesmond where you have eco, Sapphire, Max and normal and usually they're just all over the place.
It seems going forward that they've done this now though with the standard livery pretty much being Max - if they ever actually refurbish anything into it.
(19 Jul 2020, 10:57 pm)Storx Yeah get that, tbh when I was talking about having a uniform fleet this is when you badly need it. It works at Blyth as everything Max similar at Ashington as the X21/X22 just work by itself with the X14/15/18/20 doing the same up North which are all Max.Given this a reply in a new thread over on the ANE section so that this thread can return to L94 discussion!
Could understand how it's a bit of a nightmare at Durham though where some are Max, some are Frequenta, some are Sapphire and some are nothing. Similar with Jesmond where you have eco, Sapphire, Max and normal and usually they're just all over the place.
It seems going forward that they've done this now though with the standard livery pretty much being Max - if they ever actually refurbish anything into it.
(19 Jul 2020, 11:19 pm)mb134 The issue with Durham, in my experience at least, is that they don't even seem to make an effort to route brand correctly. With Blyth and Jesmond you can tell in the morning that they've generally tried the best they can (even if it's just the brand, and specific route branding is still all over the place), but throughout the day they prioritise service punctuality levels over anything else.
Durham always seem to just put out whatever they fancy. When I got the 6 the other day, both 7456 and 7494 were on there - neither even branded, let alone "Sapphire". 7519 and 7521, Sapphire E400s, were on the MAX 48/X46, alongside 7455, ONE(!) X46 B7TL and then a handful of single decks. The X12 (MAX) that day had, from Durham, two standard spec Pulsars (1409/1510), two Sapphire Pulsars (1517/1524) and a Streetlite (1596), and one MAX Pulsar (1482). This isn't one or two incorrectly allocated buses, it's leading drivers and depot management giving the bare minimum and having zero pride in the work they're doing.
Arriva Durham County, generally bar Stockton, have always seemed to operate at a lower standard than Northumbria have - be it in vehicle appearance, driver friendliness or pride in what they're doing. That's by no means to say Northumbria are always good at those things I've mentioned, but from a passengers perspective I always feel more welcomed by drivers north of the Tyne - and that the buses operated by those depots have a bit more TLC.
(19 Jul 2020, 11:19 pm)mb134 The issue with Durham, in my experience at least, is that they don't even seem to make an effort to route brand correctly. With Blyth and Jesmond you can tell in the morning that they've generally tried the best they can (even if it's just the brand, and specific route branding is still all over the place), but throughout the day they prioritise service punctuality levels over anything else.
Durham always seem to just put out whatever they fancy. When I got the 6 the other day, both 7456 and 7494 were on there - neither even branded, let alone "Sapphire". 7519 and 7521, Sapphire E400s, were on the MAX 48/X46, alongside 7455, ONE(!) X46 B7TL and then a handful of single decks. The X12 (MAX) that day had, from Durham, two standard spec Pulsars (1409/1510), two Sapphire Pulsars (1517/1524) and a Streetlite (1596), and one MAX Pulsar (1482). This isn't one or two incorrectly allocated buses, it's leading drivers and depot management giving the bare minimum and having zero pride in the work they're doing.
Arriva Durham County, generally bar Stockton, have always seemed to operate at a lower standard than Northumbria have - be it in vehicle appearance, driver friendliness or pride in what they're doing. That's by no means to say Northumbria are always good at those things I've mentioned, but from a passengers perspective I always feel more welcomed by drivers north of the Tyne - and that the buses operated by those depots have a bit more TLC.
(19 Jul 2020, 11:19 pm)mb134 The issue with Durham, in my experience at least, is that they don't even seem to make an effort to route brand correctly. With Blyth and Jesmond you can tell in the morning that they've generally tried the best they can (even if it's just the brand, and specific route branding is still all over the place), but throughout the day they prioritise service punctuality levels over anything else.
Durham always seem to just put out whatever they fancy. When I got the 6 the other day, both 7456 and 7494 were on there - neither even branded, let alone "Sapphire". 7519 and 7521, Sapphire E400s, were on the MAX 48/X46, alongside 7455, ONE(!) X46 B7TL and then a handful of single decks. The X12 (MAX) that day had, from Durham, two standard spec Pulsars (1409/1510), two Sapphire Pulsars (1517/1524) and a Streetlite (1596), and one MAX Pulsar (1482). This isn't one or two incorrectly allocated buses, it's leading drivers and depot management giving the bare minimum and having zero pride in the work they're doing.
Arriva Durham County, generally bar Stockton, have always seemed to operate at a lower standard than Northumbria have - be it in vehicle appearance, driver friendliness or pride in what they're doing. That's by no means to say Northumbria are always good at those things I've mentioned, but from a passengers perspective I always feel more welcomed by drivers north of the Tyne - and that the buses operated by those depots have a bit more TLC.
(19 Jul 2020, 11:19 pm)mb134 The issue with Durham, in my experience at least, is that they don't even seem to make an effort to route brand correctly. With Blyth and Jesmond you can tell in the morning that they've generally tried the best they can (even if it's just the brand, and specific route branding is still all over the place), but throughout the day they prioritise service punctuality levels over anything else.
Durham always seem to just put out whatever they fancy. When I got the 6 the other day, both 7456 and 7494 were on there - neither even branded, let alone "Sapphire". 7519 and 7521, Sapphire E400s, were on the MAX 48/X46, alongside 7455, ONE(!) X46 B7TL and then a handful of single decks. The X12 (MAX) that day had, from Durham, two standard spec Pulsars (1409/1510), two Sapphire Pulsars (1517/1524) and a Streetlite (1596), and one MAX Pulsar (1482). This isn't one or two incorrectly allocated buses, it's leading drivers and depot management giving the bare minimum and having zero pride in the work they're doing.
Arriva Durham County, generally bar Stockton, have always seemed to operate at a lower standard than Northumbria have - be it in vehicle appearance, driver friendliness or pride in what they're doing. That's by no means to say Northumbria are always good at those things I've mentioned, but from a passengers perspective I always feel more welcomed by drivers north of the Tyne - and that the buses operated by those depots have a bit more TLC.
(19 Jul 2020, 11:56 pm)Storx This not to do with social distancing and trying to get deckers on the more popular routes and singles on the less. I can't answer as I don't know Durham too well but Blyth has been equally as bad lately to the stage that there's a 308 decker going out on the X10/X11 and a X10/X11 decker going out on the 308 at the same time.
It's not as noticeable up here though as everything is Max branded nowadays and tbf it's like this all year round. Never understood why Blyth don't ditch the individual Max branding it's not like they compete against each other at any point bar Cramlington Manor Walks, Haymarket and Blyth bus station.
I was down Durham the way other month thought and was shocked at how mankey some of the buses are it's definitely noticeable that. Remember when the Gemini's ran on the X12 and getting off one of Blyths and onto one of Durham's you'd think the buses we're 10 years apart in age. It's probably why I have very different opinions to Arriva to some on here.
(19 Jul 2020, 11:56 pm)Storx This not to do with social distancing and trying to get deckers on the more popular routes and singles on the less. I can't answer as I don't know Durham too well but Blyth has been equally as bad lately to the stage that there's a 308 decker going out on the X10/X11 and a X10/X11 decker going out on the 308 at the same time.
It's not as noticeable up here though as everything is Max branded nowadays and tbf it's like this all year round. Never understood why Blyth don't ditch the individual Max branding it's not like they compete against each other at any point bar Cramlington Manor Walks, Haymarket and Blyth bus station.
I was down Durham the way other month thought and was shocked at how mankey some of the buses are it's definitely noticeable that. Remember when the Gemini's ran on the X12 and getting off one of Blyths and onto one of Durham's you'd think the buses we're 10 years apart in age. It's probably why I have very different opinions to Arriva to some on here.
A fact. Finding Arriva drivers who are actually interested in the job they are doing and the customers they are carrying is a bit like looking for rocking horse s***. As for the standard and cleanliness of the vehicles, where does one start ? A complete lack of professionalism.
We've just endured another classic example of what I say. Dormanstown/Whitby allocated 7401 stunk of diesel (inside) when we boarded (X93 journey 1020 16/07/20) then limped painfully to Whitby, coming to a halt twice where the funds got worse. The driver said nothing, nor did anyone at Whitby where no-one would have known to change vehicles if someone hadn't asked ! Shameful but typical
The NSA's on this route rarely operate, indeed you could suggest that NSA's throughout the entire fleet have been a waste of time and money
I could go on.
(20 Jul 2020, 12:33 am)scanialover A fact. Finding Arriva drivers who are actually interested in the job they are doing and the customers they are carrying is a bit like looking for rocking horse s***. As for the standard and cleanliness of the vehicles, where does one start ? A complete lack of professionalism.
We've just endured another classic example of what I say. Dormanstown/Whitby allocated 7401 stunk of diesel (inside) when we boarded (X93 journey 1020 16/07/20) then limped painfully to Whitby, coming to a halt twice where the funds got worse. The driver said nothing, nor did anyone at Whitby where no-one would have known to change vehicles if someone hadn't asked ! Shameful but typical
The NSA's on this route rarely operate, indeed you could suggest that NSA's throughout the entire fleet have been a waste of time and money
I could go on.
(20 Jul 2020, 12:33 am)scanialover A fact. Finding Arriva drivers who are actually interested in the job they are doing and the customers they are carrying is a bit like looking for rocking horse s***. As for the standard and cleanliness of the vehicles, where does one start ? A complete lack of professionalism.
We've just endured another classic example of what I say. Dormanstown/Whitby allocated 7401 stunk of diesel (inside) when we boarded (X93 journey 1020 16/07/20) then limped painfully to Whitby, coming to a halt twice where the funds got worse. The driver said nothing, nor did anyone at Whitby where no-one would have known to change vehicles if someone hadn't asked ! Shameful but typical
The NSA's on this route rarely operate, indeed you could suggest that NSA's throughout the entire fleet have been a waste of time and money
I could go on.
The entire standard (s) between the two operators - GNE v Arriva is immeasurable. No comparison in presentation and cleanliness and although I don't get the same level of contact and service experience, drivers inevitably well presented, courteous and happy to engage with customers.
Someone mentioned Arriva Durham ? A prize Arriva Durham ? A prize example of "we are bothered". The other day, had to do a trip to the city and my intended journey back operated X12.
The service arrived, Streetlite (??) 1599. It's driver duly collected his things and skunk away, end of duty. The vehicle then remained unattended for almost 15 minutes and would have remained so had it not been for the rather humourous intervention of two Arriva trainees who were scheduled to be route learning on that particular service. No-one had bothered to check that the driver for the service had failed to report for duty and likewise, no-one had bothered to organise a replacement. A classic example of just how Arriva don't perform
It got better on the eventual journey South when one of the "trainees" chose to go to sleep rather than do what he was supposed to be doing !!
Arriva through and through
To counter this there a number of drivers (and staff) who strive to deliver a decent service against a backdrop of a company that works with tight margins and puts the customer experience down the priority list. Many of these are the way they are because they get embittered by trying their hardest against this backdrop doing what can be a (very) demoralising job
(19 Jul 2020, 11:56 pm)Storx I was down Durham the way other month thought and was shocked at how mankey some of the buses are it's definitely noticeable that. Remember when the Gemini's ran on the X12 and getting off one of Blyths and onto one of Durham's you'd think the buses we're 10 years apart in age. It's probably why I have very different opinions to Arriva to some on here.
(19 Jul 2020, 11:56 pm)Storx I was down Durham the way other month thought and was shocked at how mankey some of the buses are it's definitely noticeable that. Remember when the Gemini's ran on the X12 and getting off one of Blyths and onto one of Durham's you'd think the buses we're 10 years apart in age. It's probably why I have very different opinions to Arriva to some on here.
