Pricing
Pricing
(20 Oct 2017, 10:40 am)GuyParkRoyal Several years ago I stopped using the train for local travel because the bus was so much cheaper. I recently decided to give rail travel another try due to ageing buses appearing on the X21 and single deck vehicles creeping on to the 21 allocation.
I was surprised to discover that the train is now cheaper than the bus for my travel from Chester le Street to Durham and Newcastle (after 09:00).
Chester le Street to Newcastle return by bus £5.00
Chester le Street to Newcastle return by train £4.70 but reduced to £3.10 using my railcard.
Chester le Street to Durham return by bus £5.00
Chester le Street to Durham return by train £4.00 reduced to £2.65 using my railcard.
The train might not be as frequent as the bus but on the days when I can plan my journey around the train timetable that will now be my preferred mode of travel.
(20 Oct 2017, 10:40 am)GuyParkRoyal Several years ago I stopped using the train for local travel because the bus was so much cheaper. I recently decided to give rail travel another try due to ageing buses appearing on the X21 and single deck vehicles creeping on to the 21 allocation.
I was surprised to discover that the train is now cheaper than the bus for my travel from Chester le Street to Durham and Newcastle (after 09:00).
Chester le Street to Newcastle return by bus £5.00
Chester le Street to Newcastle return by train £4.70 but reduced to £3.10 using my railcard.
Chester le Street to Durham return by bus £5.00
Chester le Street to Durham return by train £4.00 reduced to £2.65 using my railcard.
The train might not be as frequent as the bus but on the days when I can plan my journey around the train timetable that will now be my preferred mode of travel.
(20 Oct 2017, 11:53 am)Andreos1 If word gets around that the train is cheaper, it may see demand dictate a more frequent service on train - obviously dicated by pathing issues.
I got off a TPX (which was heading to Newcastle) a few weekends ago at Chester and the platform was full of people waiting to board.
Obviously it isnt like that for every train, but there must be a reason they were all using the infrequent train, over the 24hr bus.
(20 Oct 2017, 11:53 am)Andreos1 If word gets around that the train is cheaper, it may see demand dictate a more frequent service on train - obviously dicated by pathing issues.
I got off a TPX (which was heading to Newcastle) a few weekends ago at Chester and the platform was full of people waiting to board.
Obviously it isnt like that for every train, but there must be a reason they were all using the infrequent train, over the 24hr bus.
http://www.citymetric.com/transport/sadi...buses-3455
Re-design of 'Hopper' fare, sees increase in usage.
Amazing what happens when the pricing of tickets is made even more attractive.
(06 Nov 2017, 12:29 pm)Andreos1 http://www.citymetric.com/transport/sadi...buses-3455
Re-design of 'Hopper' fare, sees increase in usage.
Amazing what happens when the pricing of tickets is made even more attractive.
(06 Nov 2017, 12:29 pm)Andreos1 http://www.citymetric.com/transport/sadi...buses-3455
Re-design of 'Hopper' fare, sees increase in usage.
Amazing what happens when the pricing of tickets is made even more attractive.
(20 Oct 2017, 11:53 am)Andreos1 If word gets around that the train is cheaper, it may see demand dictate a more frequent service on train - obviously dicated by pathing issues.
I got off a TPX (which was heading to Newcastle) a few weekends ago at Chester and the platform was full of people waiting to board.
Obviously it isnt like that for every train, but there must be a reason they were all using the infrequent train, over the 24hr bus.
(20 Oct 2017, 11:53 am)Andreos1 If word gets around that the train is cheaper, it may see demand dictate a more frequent service on train - obviously dicated by pathing issues.
I got off a TPX (which was heading to Newcastle) a few weekends ago at Chester and the platform was full of people waiting to board.
Obviously it isnt like that for every train, but there must be a reason they were all using the infrequent train, over the 24hr bus.
(06 Nov 2017, 8:30 pm)Tamesider Not really relevant to de-regulated Britain, though.
(06 Nov 2017, 8:56 pm)Tamesider Only just come across this thread, and those rail fares are cheap even by GM standards. I also live where there is an element of competition, on a section of route of about 4 miles into Manchester Piccadilly:
(Return) Rail fare is £4.70 peak; £3.60 off-peak. This of course, includes both Rail and Metrolink across the city centre. Off-peak seems to be based on a 0930 arrival time in Manchester, not departure time from originating station. The service runs approx every 30 minutes off-peak, with up to 5 trains an hour on a very haphazard peak timetable. Journey time is between 8 and 14 minutes dependant on how many stops. Punctuality varies, but at present is poor. Trains are Class 142 & 150, with the occasional 156. Loadings are heavy and increasing dramatically. Its an ATN franchise. This seems to be mainly due to additional employment and/or transferring from buses, as it has not halted the continuing growth in traffic congestion.
Bus Fare is £4.30 (eff. flat fare for any return journey above 1.5 miles in most of GM). The service runs every 10 mins off-peak (slightly less in the morning peak). Journey time is between 24 and 30 minutes. Punctuality is poor between 0830 & 1100, but reasonable at other times. Sat/Sun morning punctuality was also poor until last weekend, but Stagecoach have finally addressed this, 33 months after parrallel services were slashed which exacerbated already tight running times. Around 90% of buses are Euro6 E400 MMCs.
Today was a classic example of transport problems: Trains were disrupted more than usual, due to a signal failure further down the line - the second consecutive Monday this has happened! The problem was fixed later in the morning, but trains were still running late this evening. Due to this morning's problems, I caught the bus - which was slightly late for the first mile or so, and then hit solid traffic. A 10+ minute delay due to an accident was exacerbated by GMP deciding two bus loads of passengers would be the ideal candidates to be further delayed, whilst they spent four minutes manouevering the low-loader with the damaged car away. Of course, it wasn't just us further inconvenienced, our driver was coming off onto his mealbreak just 5 minutes down the road, so his further delay would have a knock on effect to the passengers on his second half of his duty, as well as the outbound passengers on the bus' next journey.
Getting back to the point, and this might not apply in the case of Chester-le-Street, but round here, any further increase in rail passengers/services would not only bring about more capacity issues (and tax spending to solve/satisfy them), but also reduce the viability of competing buses. That in turn must result in increased car ownership and ergo increased congestion/pollution. Not to mention, lower quality of life for those that can't drive for whatever reason.
(06 Nov 2017, 8:30 pm)Tamesider Not really relevant to de-regulated Britain, though.
(06 Nov 2017, 8:56 pm)Tamesider Only just come across this thread, and those rail fares are cheap even by GM standards. I also live where there is an element of competition, on a section of route of about 4 miles into Manchester Piccadilly:
(Return) Rail fare is £4.70 peak; £3.60 off-peak. This of course, includes both Rail and Metrolink across the city centre. Off-peak seems to be based on a 0930 arrival time in Manchester, not departure time from originating station. The service runs approx every 30 minutes off-peak, with up to 5 trains an hour on a very haphazard peak timetable. Journey time is between 8 and 14 minutes dependant on how many stops. Punctuality varies, but at present is poor. Trains are Class 142 & 150, with the occasional 156. Loadings are heavy and increasing dramatically. Its an ATN franchise. This seems to be mainly due to additional employment and/or transferring from buses, as it has not halted the continuing growth in traffic congestion.
Bus Fare is £4.30 (eff. flat fare for any return journey above 1.5 miles in most of GM). The service runs every 10 mins off-peak (slightly less in the morning peak). Journey time is between 24 and 30 minutes. Punctuality is poor between 0830 & 1100, but reasonable at other times. Sat/Sun morning punctuality was also poor until last weekend, but Stagecoach have finally addressed this, 33 months after parrallel services were slashed which exacerbated already tight running times. Around 90% of buses are Euro6 E400 MMCs.
Today was a classic example of transport problems: Trains were disrupted more than usual, due to a signal failure further down the line - the second consecutive Monday this has happened! The problem was fixed later in the morning, but trains were still running late this evening. Due to this morning's problems, I caught the bus - which was slightly late for the first mile or so, and then hit solid traffic. A 10+ minute delay due to an accident was exacerbated by GMP deciding two bus loads of passengers would be the ideal candidates to be further delayed, whilst they spent four minutes manouevering the low-loader with the damaged car away. Of course, it wasn't just us further inconvenienced, our driver was coming off onto his mealbreak just 5 minutes down the road, so his further delay would have a knock on effect to the passengers on his second half of his duty, as well as the outbound passengers on the bus' next journey.
Getting back to the point, and this might not apply in the case of Chester-le-Street, but round here, any further increase in rail passengers/services would not only bring about more capacity issues (and tax spending to solve/satisfy them), but also reduce the viability of competing buses. That in turn must result in increased car ownership and ergo increased congestion/pollution. Not to mention, lower quality of life for those that can't drive for whatever reason.
(06 Nov 2017, 9:19 pm)Andreos1 Lost me with that one.
> Fares are dictated by Operators, not LAs/Elected Mayors. This MAY change with Bus Reform in such as GM, but concepts such as 59 minute (or longer) connections for free would seem a step too far. One problem we have is that existing Operators charge wildly different fares for identical distance journeys, so if they won't standardise fares by what used to be "stages", I can't see anything more innovative being considered.
(06 Nov 2017, 9:19 pm)Andreos1 Lost me with that one.
> Fares are dictated by Operators, not LAs/Elected Mayors. This MAY change with Bus Reform in such as GM, but concepts such as 59 minute (or longer) connections for free would seem a step too far. One problem we have is that existing Operators charge wildly different fares for identical distance journeys, so if they won't standardise fares by what used to be "stages", I can't see anything more innovative being considered.
I see where you are coming from now.
Here in T&W we have the transfare.
It's been around for years and hasn't really changed. I remember getting them as a kid pre-86.
https://www.nexus.org.uk/adult-transfare
Obviously there are operator day tickets too.
Neither really work, for short trips that inevitably involve a change of bus.
Until operators move (or are forced to move) away from their own zonal ticketing and onto a Network One (but affordable) type of ticket not much will change.
GNE are far more interested in flogging you a buzzfare than encourage any interworking but North Tyneside smart zone shows it’s affordable
(06 Nov 2017, 10:08 pm)Ambassador Until operators move (or are forced to move) away from their own zonal ticketing and onto a Network One (but affordable) type of ticket not much will change.
GNE are far more interested in flogging you a buzzfare than encourage any interworking but North Tyneside smart zone shows it’s affordable
(06 Nov 2017, 10:08 pm)Ambassador Until operators move (or are forced to move) away from their own zonal ticketing and onto a Network One (but affordable) type of ticket not much will change.
GNE are far more interested in flogging you a buzzfare than encourage any interworking but North Tyneside smart zone shows it’s affordable
(06 Nov 2017, 10:08 pm)Ambassador Until operators move (or are forced to move) away from their own zonal ticketing and onto a Network One (but affordable) type of ticket not much will change.
GNE are far more interested in flogging you a buzzfare than encourage any interworking but North Tyneside smart zone shows it’s affordable
(06 Nov 2017, 10:08 pm)Ambassador Until operators move (or are forced to move) away from their own zonal ticketing and onto a Network One (but affordable) type of ticket not much will change.
GNE are far more interested in flogging you a buzzfare than encourage any interworking but North Tyneside smart zone shows it’s affordable
(06 Nov 2017, 8:56 pm)Tamesider Only just come across this thread, and those rail fares are cheap even by GM standards. I also live where there is an element of competition, on a section of route of about 4 miles into Manchester Piccadilly:Just to put some stats on this; Excluding the two Signal failures and previous Strike - next one is tomorrow, of course - my morning journey is *averaging* 6.25 minutes late arriving in M'cr. The whole journey is scheduled as 30 mins, btw. My usual evening train is more punctual than those either side it in terms of Piccadilly departures, but tonight was typical in that an on time departure translated into 4 minutes late at my home Station - not good for a journey scheduled as just 11 minutes. I also forgot to menton that since I've been catching this journey regularly, it has been reduced from 4-cars to 2, albeit it doesn't overload to the extent of the one in front which has always been 2-car despite being flagged by TFGM as dangerously overloaded.
(Return) Rail fare is £4.70 peak; £3.60 off-peak. This of course, includes both Rail and Metrolink across the city centre. Off-peak seems to be based on a 0930 arrival time in Manchester, not departure time from originating station. The service runs approx every 30 minutes off-peak, with up to 5 trains an hour on a very haphazard peak timetable. Journey time is between 8 and 14 minutes dependant on how many stops. Punctuality varies, but at present is poor. Trains are Class 142 & 150, with the occasional 156. Loadings are heavy and increasing dramatically. Its an ATN franchise. This seems to be mainly due to additional employment and/or transferring from buses, as it has not halted the continuing growth in traffic congestion.
(06 Nov 2017, 8:56 pm)Tamesider Only just come across this thread, and those rail fares are cheap even by GM standards. I also live where there is an element of competition, on a section of route of about 4 miles into Manchester Piccadilly:Just to put some stats on this; Excluding the two Signal failures and previous Strike - next one is tomorrow, of course - my morning journey is *averaging* 6.25 minutes late arriving in M'cr. The whole journey is scheduled as 30 mins, btw. My usual evening train is more punctual than those either side it in terms of Piccadilly departures, but tonight was typical in that an on time departure translated into 4 minutes late at my home Station - not good for a journey scheduled as just 11 minutes. I also forgot to menton that since I've been catching this journey regularly, it has been reduced from 4-cars to 2, albeit it doesn't overload to the extent of the one in front which has always been 2-car despite being flagged by TFGM as dangerously overloaded.
(Return) Rail fare is £4.70 peak; £3.60 off-peak. This of course, includes both Rail and Metrolink across the city centre. Off-peak seems to be based on a 0930 arrival time in Manchester, not departure time from originating station. The service runs approx every 30 minutes off-peak, with up to 5 trains an hour on a very haphazard peak timetable. Journey time is between 8 and 14 minutes dependant on how many stops. Punctuality varies, but at present is poor. Trains are Class 142 & 150, with the occasional 156. Loadings are heavy and increasing dramatically. Its an ATN franchise. This seems to be mainly due to additional employment and/or transferring from buses, as it has not halted the continuing growth in traffic congestion.
Yet another article/report complaining about the high fares public transport users are facing.
This article focuses on the needs of SEND learners struggling to access FE.
https://feweek.co.uk/2017/12/08/special-...ve-better/
https://www.arrivabus.co.uk/christmas/24hourticket/
It's a start I suppose!
Now for 24hr multi-trip tickets... The types that work really well with that much talked about 'hub & spoke' model.
I was reading recently on a Facebook post that Go North East have discontinued their Newcastle - Metrocentre day and week tickets following low sales. Firstly I think this is a very poor excuse to discontinue a ticket but it has got me thinking about a wider issue at Go North East.
Up until sometime last year all tickets (route and area savers) could be easily viewed on the website and bought on the app. Now the only tickets of this type still able to look up on the website and buy on the app are the North Tyne Saver and Sunderland Saver, both of these being sold in areas with competition. Other tickets such as The Angel Saver, Washington Saver etc are now only able to be bought from the driver and I have searched the website and found no evidence that these tickets are on sale. It is therefore possible that a passenger is buying a more expensive ticket than they need for their journey. Could this lack of information be the reason for the low sales mentioned above? and if so could a drop in sales see more of these better value tickets discontinued?
(04 Jan 2018, 7:27 pm)Pulsar I was reading recently on a Facebook post that Go North East have discontinued their Newcastle - Metrocentre day and week tickets following low sales. Firstly I think this is a very poor excuse to discontinue a ticket but it has got me thinking about a wider issue at Go North East.
Up until sometime last year all tickets (route and area savers) could be easily viewed on the website and bought on the app. Now the only tickets of this type still able to look up on the website and buy on the app are the North Tyne Saver and Sunderland Saver, both of these being sold in areas with competition. Other tickets such as The Angel Saver, Washington Saver etc are now only able to be bought from the driver and I have searched the website and found no evidence that these tickets are on sale. It is therefore possible that a passenger is buying a more expensive ticket than they need for their journey. Could this lack of information be the reason for the low sales mentioned above? and if so could a drop in sales see more of these better value tickets discontinued?
(04 Jan 2018, 7:27 pm)Pulsar I was reading recently on a Facebook post that Go North East have discontinued their Newcastle - Metrocentre day and week tickets following low sales. Firstly I think this is a very poor excuse to discontinue a ticket but it has got me thinking about a wider issue at Go North East.
Up until sometime last year all tickets (route and area savers) could be easily viewed on the website and bought on the app. Now the only tickets of this type still able to look up on the website and buy on the app are the North Tyne Saver and Sunderland Saver, both of these being sold in areas with competition. Other tickets such as The Angel Saver, Washington Saver etc are now only able to be bought from the driver and I have searched the website and found no evidence that these tickets are on sale. It is therefore possible that a passenger is buying a more expensive ticket than they need for their journey. Could this lack of information be the reason for the low sales mentioned above? and if so could a drop in sales see more of these better value tickets discontinued?
(04 Jan 2018, 8:33 pm)Adrian The Washington Day Saver hasn't been listed on the website for months and months now, and I can't see any details of it being promoted anywhere. It is of course still available to purchase from the driver. Given we're in the digital age, you have to wonder why this information isn't readily available online? I do hope it is just an oversight.
In a Facebook post, Laura Pidcock MP had noted a number of her constituents had contacted her regarding the withdrawal of Consett Day Saver from the 2nd January. There are no details of how long that notice had been on tickets though.
(04 Jan 2018, 8:33 pm)Adrian The Washington Day Saver hasn't been listed on the website for months and months now, and I can't see any details of it being promoted anywhere. It is of course still available to purchase from the driver. Given we're in the digital age, you have to wonder why this information isn't readily available online? I do hope it is just an oversight.
In a Facebook post, Laura Pidcock MP had noted a number of her constituents had contacted her regarding the withdrawal of Consett Day Saver from the 2nd January. There are no details of how long that notice had been on tickets though.
(04 Jan 2018, 9:16 pm)Andreos1 I don't get it.
Why would a product like that, be 'withdrawn due to poor sales'?
The administrative costs will be negligible.
If the product isnt selling, then find out why it isnt selling.
If passengers are unaware of the product, then make them aware of the product.
Bizarre.
(04 Jan 2018, 9:16 pm)Andreos1 I don't get it.
Why would a product like that, be 'withdrawn due to poor sales'?
The administrative costs will be negligible.
If the product isnt selling, then find out why it isnt selling.
If passengers are unaware of the product, then make them aware of the product.
Bizarre.
(04 Jan 2018, 10:05 pm)deanmachine Yep, they also withdrew the Wear Xpress Saver, and Peterlee Saver too on the same day (might have been more), wasn't too much said about that too.
(04 Jan 2018, 10:05 pm)deanmachine Yep, they also withdrew the Wear Xpress Saver, and Peterlee Saver too on the same day (might have been more), wasn't too much said about that too.