Arriva Purchased by I Squared

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MetrolineGA1511

186

11 Nov 2023, 9:28 pm #21

(11 Nov 2023, 9:03 pm)Andreos1 Continue the way they're going and GAG may be another to add to the list!

Maybe GA will sell GNE - for example Sunderland, Percy Main and Hexham depots to Stagecoach and the rest to I Squared?

MetrolineGA1511

11 Nov 2023, 9:28 pm #21

(11 Nov 2023, 9:03 pm)Andreos1 Continue the way they're going and GAG may be another to add to the list!

Maybe GA will sell GNE - for example Sunderland, Percy Main and Hexham depots to Stagecoach and the rest to I Squared?

Storx

4,654

11 Nov 2023, 9:30 pm #22

(11 Nov 2023, 9:15 pm)Andreos1 I wonder if the decision to keep it in Newcastle, is more of a token, political gesture.

Similar to Barbour in South Shields or Fishermen's Friends in Fleetwood.

To get it back on thread, maybe that's why Arriva have their office in Sunderland - linking back to the Cowie's legacy.

Aye possible, does anyone actually know if there's anyone senior actually based there as usually the HQ rather than the registered address is their base which is the London office.

I think Barbour and Fishermen's Friends still have their HQ at both don't they?

Yeah, well and it's always been there to be fair. Why move you're whole team for the sake of it - plus the rent is cheap aswell. I always find it odd that the First HQ is basically still just an office slammed on the side of their main depot in Aberdeen. Not even a nice shiny building in a business park or in the city centre. Suppose could pay for your staff not wasting money on offices in central London or Grey Street.

Storx

11 Nov 2023, 9:30 pm #22

(11 Nov 2023, 9:15 pm)Andreos1 I wonder if the decision to keep it in Newcastle, is more of a token, political gesture.

Similar to Barbour in South Shields or Fishermen's Friends in Fleetwood.

To get it back on thread, maybe that's why Arriva have their office in Sunderland - linking back to the Cowie's legacy.

MetrolineGA1511

186

11 Nov 2023, 9:30 pm #23

(11 Nov 2023, 9:12 pm)Jimmi Think it would've been the 213 back then, became the 21 in 2008 as part of the overhaul of services in the Peterlee area whilst the 214 to Middlesbrough became the 21A (Sunderland - Peterlee leg became 31/31A to avoid the use of Tachos at some later stage). It was curtailed in Peterlee in either 2011/12 but was extended to Sunderland again as the X21 in autumn 2014 before becoming the X21 for the whole route shortly after. It stopped serving Sunderland again in October 2019.

Interesting detailed history. With a few interurban routes I am more likely to remember the specific journey but not necessarily the route number.

MetrolineGA1511

11 Nov 2023, 9:30 pm #23

(11 Nov 2023, 9:12 pm)Jimmi Think it would've been the 213 back then, became the 21 in 2008 as part of the overhaul of services in the Peterlee area whilst the 214 to Middlesbrough became the 21A (Sunderland - Peterlee leg became 31/31A to avoid the use of Tachos at some later stage). It was curtailed in Peterlee in either 2011/12 but was extended to Sunderland again as the X21 in autumn 2014 before becoming the X21 for the whole route shortly after. It stopped serving Sunderland again in October 2019.

Interesting detailed history. With a few interurban routes I am more likely to remember the specific journey but not necessarily the route number.

mb134

4,168

11 Nov 2023, 10:02 pm #24

(11 Nov 2023, 9:30 pm)Storx Yeah, well and it's always been there to be fair. Why move you're whole team for the sake of it - plus the rent is cheap aswell. I always find it odd that the First HQ is basically still just an office slammed on the side of their main depot in Aberdeen. Not even a nice shiny building in a business park or in the city centre. Suppose could pay for your staff not wasting money on offices in central London or Grey Street.

It's much like the rest of the Aberdeen operation in that sense, absolutely nothing to shout about.

I've seen comments from people saying that they'd like First to take over from Arriva (admittedly pre- I Squared purchase), and there'll no doubt be some people wanting them to take over from GNE. Put it this way, if First were to take over from GNE they'd have Streetlites operating the 21 and then cut the frequency to half hourly. They, especially from my experiences of them in Scotland, have absolutely no ability to plan for the future, and seem to make changes with the intent of them failing (with the next set of service changes cutting the service completely).

mb134

11 Nov 2023, 10:02 pm #24

(11 Nov 2023, 9:30 pm)Storx Yeah, well and it's always been there to be fair. Why move you're whole team for the sake of it - plus the rent is cheap aswell. I always find it odd that the First HQ is basically still just an office slammed on the side of their main depot in Aberdeen. Not even a nice shiny building in a business park or in the city centre. Suppose could pay for your staff not wasting money on offices in central London or Grey Street.

Storx

4,654

11 Nov 2023, 10:18 pm #25

(11 Nov 2023, 10:02 pm)mb134 It's much like the rest of the Aberdeen operation in that sense, absolutely nothing to shout about.

I've seen comments from people saying that they'd like First to take over from Arriva (admittedly pre- I Squared purchase), and there'll no doubt be some people wanting them to take over from GNE. Put it this way, if First were to take over from GNE they'd have Streetlites operating the 21 and then cut the frequency to half hourly. They, especially from my experiences of them in Scotland, have absolutely no ability to plan for the future, and seem to make changes with the intent of them failing (with the next set of service changes cutting the service completely).

Yeah agreed, First are awful. They're not called worst group for no reason. Mind there's been improvements in recent years as 10 year ago or so they were in a really really bad place not that there's much bar for that.

Definitely agreed, wouldn't want them anywhere near the North East though, their Stoke operations are pretty awful aswell especially for a poor town which generally means high levels of bus usage. Mind not that Arriva can take a rosette for it either as they've just pulled out of Crewe completely.

Mind GNE have gone there before with the Omnicities in the mid-late 00's, one of the most bonkers decisions to then replace them with ex London stock. Very bizarre how they treat the 21 so badly considering it's probably their flagship route around that period.

The Pulsars at Ashington and Blyth for the 308/X30's was pretty shortsighted in 2009 aswell, which had similar problems.

Storx

11 Nov 2023, 10:18 pm #25

(11 Nov 2023, 10:02 pm)mb134 It's much like the rest of the Aberdeen operation in that sense, absolutely nothing to shout about.

I've seen comments from people saying that they'd like First to take over from Arriva (admittedly pre- I Squared purchase), and there'll no doubt be some people wanting them to take over from GNE. Put it this way, if First were to take over from GNE they'd have Streetlites operating the 21 and then cut the frequency to half hourly. They, especially from my experiences of them in Scotland, have absolutely no ability to plan for the future, and seem to make changes with the intent of them failing (with the next set of service changes cutting the service completely).

mb134

4,168

11 Nov 2023, 11:08 pm #26

(11 Nov 2023, 10:18 pm)Storx Yeah agreed, First are awful. They're not called worst group for no reason. Mind there's been improvements in recent years as 10 year ago or so they were in a really really bad place not that there's much bar for that.

Definitely agreed, wouldn't want them anywhere near the North East though, their Stoke operations are pretty awful aswell especially for a poor town which generally means high levels of bus usage. Mind not that Arriva can take a rosette for it either as they've just pulled out of Crewe completely.

Mind GNE have gone there before with the Omnicities in the mid-late 00's, one of the most bonkers decisions to then replace them with ex London stock. Very bizarre how they treat the 21 so badly considering it's probably their flagship route around that period.

The Pulsars at Ashington and Blyth for the 308/X30's was pretty shortsighted in 2009 aswell, which had similar problems.

There might have been some improvement in some areas, but from what I've witnessed it's been getting worse. Very small sample size of one operating area, but here's the Aberdeen network map from 2017, so just 6 years ago:

First Aberdeen Network Map April 2017 by Jordan Adam, on Flickr

The 5, 8, 9, 16, 117, and X40 no longer exist. The 1/2 was a consistent B7LA/E500 allocation, the B7LAs are now long gone (partially replaced by some Citaro bendies which have been pretty unreliable) and the E500s are getting replaced by 61 plate E400s... The 1/2 are also consistently allocated single deckers in the evenings, which are totally unsuitable for the routes.

There have been some improvements, such as deckers onto the Dyce routes but given the ones introduced for the 19 are mostly back with Wrights because of capacity issues at the fuelling site, and that the 17/18 ones are helping out on the 1/2 from what I've seen, the benefit of this likely hasn't been fully realised.

I think with GNE on the 21, you can at least forgive them that they have continually upgraded the fleet since then. The B5LHs and then the StreetDecks were improvements. I would imagine we'd have seen new vehicles again recently if not for Covid, and given the apparent state of those Streetdecks I wouldn't be surprised if that is the next route we see investment in.

Arriva vehicle capacity is something you'd hope I Squared look at. There are a number of routes which should be allocated deckers on paper, yet either aren't due to availability or in some cases there's a split allocation and there's not much you can do (43/4/5 and X7/8/9). I see Pulsars on the 43/44/45 & X9 every morning with standing loads, same with whenever the 0649 X22 is allocated a Streetlite.

Outside of those, you look at the 7 at Durham/Darlington, same with the 1 now the X1 has been cut. Wasn't the 6 also a route which needed deckers when converted to Sapphire? In terms of growth, you'd say even the X66/67 would be a logical route to put deckers onto if the growth on there continues - it's certainly more cost effective than increasing the frequency again.

The amount of times the X93/4 were single deckers this year is laughable and given 7424-6 are still going you'd think there is no plan in place to replace them for next summer yet, where they'll likely make 1 attempt at an X94, die on a hill, spend 2 months VOR, then plod around on the 62 again.

Edited 11 Nov 2023, 11:08 pm by mb134.

mb134

11 Nov 2023, 11:08 pm #26

(11 Nov 2023, 10:18 pm)Storx Yeah agreed, First are awful. They're not called worst group for no reason. Mind there's been improvements in recent years as 10 year ago or so they were in a really really bad place not that there's much bar for that.

Definitely agreed, wouldn't want them anywhere near the North East though, their Stoke operations are pretty awful aswell especially for a poor town which generally means high levels of bus usage. Mind not that Arriva can take a rosette for it either as they've just pulled out of Crewe completely.

Mind GNE have gone there before with the Omnicities in the mid-late 00's, one of the most bonkers decisions to then replace them with ex London stock. Very bizarre how they treat the 21 so badly considering it's probably their flagship route around that period.

The Pulsars at Ashington and Blyth for the 308/X30's was pretty shortsighted in 2009 aswell, which had similar problems.

Storx

4,654

11 Nov 2023, 11:29 pm #27

(11 Nov 2023, 11:08 pm)mb134 There might have been some improvement in some areas, but from what I've witnessed it's been getting worse. Very small sample size of one operating area, but here's the Aberdeen network map from 2017, so just 6 years ago:

First Aberdeen Network Map April 2017 by Jordan Adam, on Flickr

The 5, 8, 9, 16, 117, and X40 no longer exist. The 1/2 was a consistent B7LA/E500 allocation, the B7LAs are now long gone (partially replaced by some Citaro bendies which have been pretty unreliable) and the E500s are getting replaced by 61 plate E400s... The 1/2 are also consistently allocated single deckers in the evenings, which are totally unsuitable for the routes.

There have been some improvements, such as deckers onto the Dyce routes but given the ones introduced for the 19 are mostly back with Wrights because of capacity issues at the fuelling site, and that the 17/18 ones are helping out on the 1/2 from what I've seen, the benefit of this likely hasn't been fully realised.

I think with GNE on the 21, you can at least forgive them that they have continually upgraded the fleet since then. The B5LHs and then the StreetDecks were improvements. I would imagine we'd have seen new vehicles again recently if not for Covid, and given the apparent state of those Streetdecks I wouldn't be surprised if that is the next route we see investment in.

Arriva vehicle capacity is something you'd hope I Squared look at. There are a number of routes which should be allocated deckers on paper, yet either aren't due to availability or in some cases there's a split allocation and there's not much you can do (43/4/5 and X7/8/9). I see Pulsars on the 43/44/45 & X9 every morning with standing loads, same with whenever the 0649 X22 is allocated a Streetlite.

Outside of those, you look at the 7 at Durham/Darlington, same with the 1 now the X1 has been cut. Wasn't the 6 also a route which needed deckers when converted to Sapphire? In terms of growth, you'd say even the X66/67 would be a logical route to put deckers onto if the growth on there continues - it's certainly more cost effective than increasing the frequency again.

The amount of times the X93/4 were single deckers this year is laughable and given 7424-6 are still going you'd think there is no plan in place to replace them for next summer yet, where they'll likely make 1 attempt at an X94, die on a hill, spend 2 months VOR, then plod around on the 62 again.

Aye must admit Aberdeen has been on a slippery slope in recent years. Used to be always a really smart fleet 15 year ago or so aswell, was always quite impressed with their fleet. Stagecoach were always equally as impressive up there especially compared to the crap around here at the time.

Agreed with the allocations, Blyth badly needs to be a full DD allocation imo. The SD's on the 306/308 are less than ideal awell and they've been still getting allocated aswell, whether that's official or not but their on daily.

Probably a bit of a debate about most routes at Durham, Ashington, Darlington and Blyth whether they should have full length single deckers. Most routes at Durham it's either too little capacity, or complete overkill.

As far as I'm aware pretty much everything is having problems. I know there's some very comfortable looking buses on the 5/X26/X27 in Darlington aswell when I've been down there and stuff like the 49, 56, 58 etc they're complete overkill.

Storx

11 Nov 2023, 11:29 pm #27

(11 Nov 2023, 11:08 pm)mb134 There might have been some improvement in some areas, but from what I've witnessed it's been getting worse. Very small sample size of one operating area, but here's the Aberdeen network map from 2017, so just 6 years ago:

First Aberdeen Network Map April 2017 by Jordan Adam, on Flickr

The 5, 8, 9, 16, 117, and X40 no longer exist. The 1/2 was a consistent B7LA/E500 allocation, the B7LAs are now long gone (partially replaced by some Citaro bendies which have been pretty unreliable) and the E500s are getting replaced by 61 plate E400s... The 1/2 are also consistently allocated single deckers in the evenings, which are totally unsuitable for the routes.

There have been some improvements, such as deckers onto the Dyce routes but given the ones introduced for the 19 are mostly back with Wrights because of capacity issues at the fuelling site, and that the 17/18 ones are helping out on the 1/2 from what I've seen, the benefit of this likely hasn't been fully realised.

I think with GNE on the 21, you can at least forgive them that they have continually upgraded the fleet since then. The B5LHs and then the StreetDecks were improvements. I would imagine we'd have seen new vehicles again recently if not for Covid, and given the apparent state of those Streetdecks I wouldn't be surprised if that is the next route we see investment in.

Arriva vehicle capacity is something you'd hope I Squared look at. There are a number of routes which should be allocated deckers on paper, yet either aren't due to availability or in some cases there's a split allocation and there's not much you can do (43/4/5 and X7/8/9). I see Pulsars on the 43/44/45 & X9 every morning with standing loads, same with whenever the 0649 X22 is allocated a Streetlite.

Outside of those, you look at the 7 at Durham/Darlington, same with the 1 now the X1 has been cut. Wasn't the 6 also a route which needed deckers when converted to Sapphire? In terms of growth, you'd say even the X66/67 would be a logical route to put deckers onto if the growth on there continues - it's certainly more cost effective than increasing the frequency again.

The amount of times the X93/4 were single deckers this year is laughable and given 7424-6 are still going you'd think there is no plan in place to replace them for next summer yet, where they'll likely make 1 attempt at an X94, die on a hill, spend 2 months VOR, then plod around on the 62 again.

solsburian

167

11 Nov 2023, 11:36 pm #28

(11 Nov 2023, 11:29 pm)Storx Aye must admit Aberdeen has been on a slippery slope in recent years. Used to be always a really smart fleet 15 year ago or so aswell, was always quite impressed with their fleet. Stagecoach were always equally as impressive up there especially compared to the crap around here at the time.

Agreed with the allocations, Blyth badly needs to be a full DD allocation imo. The SD's on the 306/308 are less than ideal awell and they've been still getting allocated aswell, whether that's official or not but their on daily.

Probably a bit of a debate about most routes at Durham, Ashington, Darlington and Blyth whether they should have full length single deckers. Most routes at Durham it's either too little capacity, or complete overkill.

As far as I'm aware pretty much everything is having problems. I know there's some very comfortable looking buses on the 5/X26/X27 in Darlington aswell when I've been down there and stuff like the 49, 56, 58 etc they're complete overkill.

Hopefully if/when Blyth gets EVs for the 4X services, that will cascade away the Puslars. I doubt we will see any significant fleet investment, route changes (outside of contracted services and any orders in place) untill the sale to I Squared is completed now.

solsburian

11 Nov 2023, 11:36 pm #28

(11 Nov 2023, 11:29 pm)Storx Aye must admit Aberdeen has been on a slippery slope in recent years. Used to be always a really smart fleet 15 year ago or so aswell, was always quite impressed with their fleet. Stagecoach were always equally as impressive up there especially compared to the crap around here at the time.

Agreed with the allocations, Blyth badly needs to be a full DD allocation imo. The SD's on the 306/308 are less than ideal awell and they've been still getting allocated aswell, whether that's official or not but their on daily.

Probably a bit of a debate about most routes at Durham, Ashington, Darlington and Blyth whether they should have full length single deckers. Most routes at Durham it's either too little capacity, or complete overkill.

As far as I'm aware pretty much everything is having problems. I know there's some very comfortable looking buses on the 5/X26/X27 in Darlington aswell when I've been down there and stuff like the 49, 56, 58 etc they're complete overkill.

Storx

4,654

11 Nov 2023, 11:42 pm #29

(11 Nov 2023, 11:36 pm)solsburian Hopefully if/when Blyth gets EVs for the 4X services, that will cascade away the Puslars. I doubt we will see any significant fleet investment, route changes (outside of contracted services and any orders in place) untill the sale to I Squared is completed now.

Aye agreed, or we'll end up with some DB300's coming up from London. I know there's a lot going out soon with electrics coming in there and I'm not sure many people will want them as there's currently 1 bus outside of Arriva.

The fact there's a 59 plate driver training bus, probably says the 57 and 58 plates don't have long left and the 57 plates are shot to pieces aswell.

Storx

11 Nov 2023, 11:42 pm #29

(11 Nov 2023, 11:36 pm)solsburian Hopefully if/when Blyth gets EVs for the 4X services, that will cascade away the Puslars. I doubt we will see any significant fleet investment, route changes (outside of contracted services and any orders in place) untill the sale to I Squared is completed now.

mb134

4,168

11 Nov 2023, 11:47 pm #30

(11 Nov 2023, 11:29 pm)Storx Aye must admit Aberdeen has been on a slippery slope in recent years. Used to be always a really smart fleet 15 year ago or so aswell, was always quite impressed with their fleet. Stagecoach were always equally as impressive up there especially compared to the crap around here at the time.

Agreed with the allocations, Blyth badly needs to be a full DD allocation imo. The SD's on the 306/308 are less than ideal awell and they've been still getting allocated aswell, whether that's official or not but their on daily.

Probably a bit of a debate about most routes at Durham, Ashington, Darlington and Blyth whether they should have full length single deckers. Most routes at Durham it's either too little capacity, or complete overkill.

As far as I'm aware pretty much everything is having problems. I know there's some very comfortable looking buses on the 5/X26/X27 in Darlington aswell when I've been down there and stuff like the 49, 56, 58 etc they're complete overkill.

Stagecoach up there now are poor as well. Maintenance is shockingly bad, they've had 2 E400s (19215 and 19378 I believe) up in flames this year alone, and members of the same batch up in flames in recent years too (19212 and 19373, which has had multiple). https://www.aberdeenlive.news/news/aberd...re-8867759.

You'd think investment in replacing the remaining B7TLs would be priority, then the Temsas? Sort those out and you're making decent inroads. Some new deckers for Blyth and the DB300s can retire onto the likes of the 43 and X46 at Durham.

mb134

11 Nov 2023, 11:47 pm #30

(11 Nov 2023, 11:29 pm)Storx Aye must admit Aberdeen has been on a slippery slope in recent years. Used to be always a really smart fleet 15 year ago or so aswell, was always quite impressed with their fleet. Stagecoach were always equally as impressive up there especially compared to the crap around here at the time.

Agreed with the allocations, Blyth badly needs to be a full DD allocation imo. The SD's on the 306/308 are less than ideal awell and they've been still getting allocated aswell, whether that's official or not but their on daily.

Probably a bit of a debate about most routes at Durham, Ashington, Darlington and Blyth whether they should have full length single deckers. Most routes at Durham it's either too little capacity, or complete overkill.

As far as I'm aware pretty much everything is having problems. I know there's some very comfortable looking buses on the 5/X26/X27 in Darlington aswell when I've been down there and stuff like the 49, 56, 58 etc they're complete overkill.

Storx

4,654

12 Nov 2023, 12:07 am #31

(11 Nov 2023, 11:47 pm)mb134 Stagecoach up there now are poor as well. Maintenance is shockingly bad, they've had 2 E400s (19215 and 19378 I believe) up in flames this year alone, and members of the same batch up in flames in recent years too (19212 and 19373, which has had multiple). https://www.aberdeenlive.news/news/aberd...re-8867759.

You'd think investment in replacing the remaining B7TLs would be priority, then the Temsas? Sort those out and you're making decent inroads. Some new deckers for Blyth and the DB300s can retire onto the likes of the 43 and X46 at Durham.

Shame to see up there, to be honest. Used always to be quite ahead especially for the size of the city.

---

Yeah totally agreed, investing in some singles for the X4/5/5A at Stockton and Redcar would go a long way in getting arid of most of the Temsa's as they're desperate for something better, then a batch of deckers and/or singles - probably a mix for Darlington to replace their Streetlites on the 1/5 and 6 at Durham and move the Streetlite's to Ashington to replace the Pulsars then upgrade other routes such as the 2 at Darlington, 63 at Redcar, 8/9 at Stockton, 15 at Stockton to pick a few that could be done. They all definitely deserve an upgrade with the Pulsars going onto the X2/X3/64 at Redcar.

Would make a good innings at getting arid of everything for a few year and give a few flagship routes some much needed investment which they desperately need. Could start making inroads on the 09 Pulsars which some are looking extremely tired aswell and would give everyone a share for some investment.

Storx

12 Nov 2023, 12:07 am #31

(11 Nov 2023, 11:47 pm)mb134 Stagecoach up there now are poor as well. Maintenance is shockingly bad, they've had 2 E400s (19215 and 19378 I believe) up in flames this year alone, and members of the same batch up in flames in recent years too (19212 and 19373, which has had multiple). https://www.aberdeenlive.news/news/aberd...re-8867759.

You'd think investment in replacing the remaining B7TLs would be priority, then the Temsas? Sort those out and you're making decent inroads. Some new deckers for Blyth and the DB300s can retire onto the likes of the 43 and X46 at Durham.

mb134

4,168

12 Nov 2023, 1:57 am #32

(12 Nov 2023, 12:07 am)Storx Shame to see up there, to be honest. Used always to be quite ahead especially for the size of the city.

---

Yeah totally agreed, investing in some singles for the X4/5/5A at Stockton and Redcar would go a long way in getting arid of most of the Temsa's as they're desperate for something better, then a batch of deckers and/or singles - probably a mix for Darlington to replace their Streetlites on the 1/5 and 6 at Durham and move the Streetlite's to Ashington to replace the Pulsars then upgrade other routes such as the 2 at Darlington, 63 at Redcar, 8/9 at Stockton, 15 at Stockton to pick a few that could be done. They all definitely deserve an upgrade with the Pulsars going onto the X2/X3/64 at Redcar.

Would make a good innings at getting arid of everything for a few year and give a few flagship routes some much needed investment which they desperately need. Could start making inroads on the 09 Pulsars which some are looking extremely tired aswell and would give everyone a share for some investment.

At risk of getting massively off topic and somehow getting onto a Coast Road suggestion, and I'm aware it's fantasy land, but just to show what you could do with an order of bang on 100 vehicles over the next couple of years and spreading the investment over (nearly) all the depots:

Redcar/Whitby:
21x B8RLE Evora:

21 for the 18 X3/X4 boards.
The 14 Streetlites at Redcar currently would be moved to the 63 for the 13 boards on there.
1584-1589 from Darlington, for the 62 and 81.
This would allow for the withdrawal of all Temsas and Pulsars currently at Redcar, and give an allocation of 41 single decks for a PVR of 37.
The 5x Redcar Pulsars would move to Durham, replacing the remaining E200s there.

3x 8.9m E200 MMC:

To replace the remaining Solo's at Whitby.

7x E400 MMC:

To replace 7401-6 on the X93.
The 2 spares over the winter would allow for greater rotation, but also would mean that there is still 1 spare MMC in the summer vs the PVR.
7401-6 would be retained for the X94 and P1/2, as 7424-6 and 7609/10 are now, and spread across Redcar/Darlington/Durham over the winter as required to cover for repaints/refurbishments/long term VORs.
7424-6 withdrawn, 7609/10 sent to Durham.

Stockton:
20x B8RLE Evora:

For the 5, and their X12/X22/X66 boards (total PVR of 18)
Allows for withdrawal of all of their 09 plate Pulsars, and 1441-3 into reserve.

Darlington:
12x B8RLE Evora:

To replace their remaining 6x 09 plate Pulsars, and allow 1584-9 to transfer to Redcar.
This would fully cover their 11x single decker X26/66/75 boards (believe they currently have one X26 decker board).

Durham:
16x E400MMC:

Withdrawal of remaining 6 B7TLs, 7510/11/12/4-7/21.
Allows 7523/39 to go to Darlington to replace 7518/9.

7609/10 coming in allows for the withdrawal of 1412/3 as the last two 09 plate Pulsars at Durham, and increasing the amount of deckers.

Blyth:
21x E400MMC:

Withdrawal of 7501-7/9.
Transfer of 7556 to Darlington to replace 7520.
Transfer of 1500-1505 to Ashington for the 57/57A.
Transfer of 7522/4-6 to Ashington to replace 7557/8/60/62, for withdrawal.
1463/1543 into reserve.

In summary:

All 09 plate Pulsars gone.
All 57/58/09 plate E400s gone (+7510).
All B7TLs gone.
All Solos gone.
All non-MMC E200s gone.
Heavy duty single deckers onto the demanding routes at Redcar, and the 'X' routes at Stockton (plus the 5) and Darlington.
Increase in decker capacity at Durham.
Better X93/4 and P1/2 allocation.

I think that shows the scale of investment needed to get the fleet into a decent condition, but also how it's absolutely going to need to be spread out rather than focusing just on one depot.

mb134

12 Nov 2023, 1:57 am #32

(12 Nov 2023, 12:07 am)Storx Shame to see up there, to be honest. Used always to be quite ahead especially for the size of the city.

---

Yeah totally agreed, investing in some singles for the X4/5/5A at Stockton and Redcar would go a long way in getting arid of most of the Temsa's as they're desperate for something better, then a batch of deckers and/or singles - probably a mix for Darlington to replace their Streetlites on the 1/5 and 6 at Durham and move the Streetlite's to Ashington to replace the Pulsars then upgrade other routes such as the 2 at Darlington, 63 at Redcar, 8/9 at Stockton, 15 at Stockton to pick a few that could be done. They all definitely deserve an upgrade with the Pulsars going onto the X2/X3/64 at Redcar.

Would make a good innings at getting arid of everything for a few year and give a few flagship routes some much needed investment which they desperately need. Could start making inroads on the 09 Pulsars which some are looking extremely tired aswell and would give everyone a share for some investment.

21 for the 18 X3/X4 boards.
The 14 Streetlites at Redcar currently would be moved to the 63 for the 13 boards on there.
1584-1589 from Darlington, for the 62 and 81.
This would allow for the withdrawal of all Temsas and Pulsars currently at Redcar, and give an allocation of 41 single decks for a PVR of 37.
The 5x Redcar Pulsars would move to Durham, replacing the remaining E200s there.

3x 8.9m E200 MMC:

To replace the remaining Solo's at Whitby.

7x E400 MMC:

To replace 7401-6 on the X93.
The 2 spares over the winter would allow for greater rotation, but also would mean that there is still 1 spare MMC in the summer vs the PVR.
7401-6 would be retained for the X94 and P1/2, as 7424-6 and 7609/10 are now, and spread across Redcar/Darlington/Durham over the winter as required to cover for repaints/refurbishments/long term VORs.
7424-6 withdrawn, 7609/10 sent to Durham.

Stockton:
20x B8RLE Evora:

For the 5, and their X12/X22/X66 boards (total PVR of 18)
Allows for withdrawal of all of their 09 plate Pulsars, and 1441-3 into reserve.

Darlington:
12x B8RLE Evora:

To replace their remaining 6x 09 plate Pulsars, and allow 1584-9 to transfer to Redcar.
This would fully cover their 11x single decker X26/66/75 boards (believe they currently have one X26 decker board).

Durham:
16x E400MMC:

Withdrawal of remaining 6 B7TLs, 7510/11/12/4-7/21.
Allows 7523/39 to go to Darlington to replace 7518/9.

7609/10 coming in allows for the withdrawal of 1412/3 as the last two 09 plate Pulsars at Durham, and increasing the amount of deckers.

Blyth:
21x E400MMC:

Withdrawal of 7501-7/9.
Transfer of 7556 to Darlington to replace 7520.
Transfer of 1500-1505 to Ashington for the 57/57A.
Transfer of 7522/4-6 to Ashington to replace 7557/8/60/62, for withdrawal.
1463/1543 into reserve.

In summary:

All 09 plate Pulsars gone.
All 57/58/09 plate E400s gone (+7510).
All B7TLs gone.
All Solos gone.
All non-MMC E200s gone.
Heavy duty single deckers onto the demanding routes at Redcar, and the 'X' routes at Stockton (plus the 5) and Darlington.
Increase in decker capacity at Durham.
Better X93/4 and P1/2 allocation.

I think that shows the scale of investment needed to get the fleet into a decent condition, but also how it's absolutely going to need to be spread out rather than focusing just on one depot.

Storx

4,654

12 Nov 2023, 8:06 am #33

(12 Nov 2023, 1:57 am)mb134 At risk of getting massively off topic and somehow getting onto a Coast Road suggestion, and I'm aware it's fantasy land, but just to show what you could do with an order of bang on 100 vehicles over the next couple of years and spreading the investment over (nearly) all the depots:

Redcar/Whitby:
21x B8RLE Evora:
21 for the 18 X3/X4 boards.

The 14 Streetlites at Redcar currently would be moved to the 63 for the 13 boards on there.

1584-1589 from Darlington, for the 62 and 81.

This would allow for the withdrawal of all Temsas and Pulsars currently at Redcar, and give an allocation of 41 single decks for a PVR of 37.

The 5x Redcar Pulsars would move to Durham, replacing the remaining E200s there.

3x 8.9m E200 MMC:
To replace the remaining Solo's at Whitby.

7x E400 MMC:
To replace 7401-6 on the X93.

The 2 spares over the winter would allow for greater rotation, but also would mean that there is still 1 spare MMC in the summer vs the PVR.

7401-6 would be retained for the X94 and P1/2, as 7424-6 and 7609/10 are now, and spread across Redcar/Darlington/Durham over the winter as required to cover for repaints/refurbishments/long term VORs.

7424-6 withdrawn, 7609/10 sent to Durham.

Stockton:
20x B8RLE Evora:
For the 5, and their X12/X22/X66 boards (total PVR of 18)

Allows for withdrawal of all of their 09 plate Pulsars, and 1441-3 into reserve.

Darlington:
12x B8RLE Evora:
To replace their remaining 6x 09 plate Pulsars, and allow 1584-9 to transfer to Redcar.

This would fully cover their 11x single decker X26/66/75 boards (believe they currently have one X26 decker board).

Durham:
16x E400MMC:
Withdrawal of remaining 6 B7TLs, 7510/11/12/4-7/21.

Allows 7523/39 to go to Darlington to replace 7518/9.

7609/10 coming in allows for the withdrawal of 1412/3 as the last two 09 plate Pulsars at Durham, and increasing the amount of deckers.

Blyth:
21x E400MMC:
Withdrawal of 7501-7/9.

Transfer of 7556 to Darlington to replace 7520.

Transfer of 1500-1505 to Ashington for the 57/57A.

Transfer of 7522/4-6 to Ashington to replace 7557/8/60/62, for withdrawal.

1463/1543 into reserve.

In summary:
All 09 plate Pulsars gone.

All 57/58/09 plate E400s gone (+7510).

All B7TLs gone.

All Solos gone.

All non-MMC E200s gone.

Heavy duty single deckers onto the demanding routes at Redcar, and the 'X' routes at Stockton (plus the 5) and Darlington.

Increase in decker capacity at Durham.

Better X93/4 and P1/2 allocation.

I think that shows the scale of investment needed to get the fleet into a decent condition, but also how it's absolutely going to need to be spread out rather than focusing just on one depot.

Aye can't disagree with that too much, mind you've forgot the electrics at Blyth which I assume will see off some of that already though. Assuming it's going to display the 57/58 plates out of Northumbria and no doubt Pulsars beyond but that's a bit more unknown.

Guess it'll depend whether they want to keep the newer Enviros at Blyth and use them on the X7/X8/X9 and displace the Pulsars instead of send them to Durham or wherever.

Mind I don't really expect it tbh. Mind I'd be looking at displacing the 67 plate Streetlites out of Darlington. They're too short for the 1/5/7 so are a bit of a problem bus there currently.

Storx

12 Nov 2023, 8:06 am #33

(12 Nov 2023, 1:57 am)mb134 At risk of getting massively off topic and somehow getting onto a Coast Road suggestion, and I'm aware it's fantasy land, but just to show what you could do with an order of bang on 100 vehicles over the next couple of years and spreading the investment over (nearly) all the depots:

Redcar/Whitby:
21x B8RLE Evora:
21 for the 18 X3/X4 boards.

The 14 Streetlites at Redcar currently would be moved to the 63 for the 13 boards on there.

1584-1589 from Darlington, for the 62 and 81.

This would allow for the withdrawal of all Temsas and Pulsars currently at Redcar, and give an allocation of 41 single decks for a PVR of 37.

The 5x Redcar Pulsars would move to Durham, replacing the remaining E200s there.

3x 8.9m E200 MMC:
To replace the remaining Solo's at Whitby.

7x E400 MMC:
To replace 7401-6 on the X93.

The 2 spares over the winter would allow for greater rotation, but also would mean that there is still 1 spare MMC in the summer vs the PVR.

7401-6 would be retained for the X94 and P1/2, as 7424-6 and 7609/10 are now, and spread across Redcar/Darlington/Durham over the winter as required to cover for repaints/refurbishments/long term VORs.

7424-6 withdrawn, 7609/10 sent to Durham.

Stockton:
20x B8RLE Evora:
For the 5, and their X12/X22/X66 boards (total PVR of 18)

Allows for withdrawal of all of their 09 plate Pulsars, and 1441-3 into reserve.

Darlington:
12x B8RLE Evora:
To replace their remaining 6x 09 plate Pulsars, and allow 1584-9 to transfer to Redcar.

This would fully cover their 11x single decker X26/66/75 boards (believe they currently have one X26 decker board).

Durham:
16x E400MMC:
Withdrawal of remaining 6 B7TLs, 7510/11/12/4-7/21.

Allows 7523/39 to go to Darlington to replace 7518/9.

7609/10 coming in allows for the withdrawal of 1412/3 as the last two 09 plate Pulsars at Durham, and increasing the amount of deckers.

Blyth:
21x E400MMC:
Withdrawal of 7501-7/9.

Transfer of 7556 to Darlington to replace 7520.

Transfer of 1500-1505 to Ashington for the 57/57A.

Transfer of 7522/4-6 to Ashington to replace 7557/8/60/62, for withdrawal.

1463/1543 into reserve.

In summary:
All 09 plate Pulsars gone.

All 57/58/09 plate E400s gone (+7510).

All B7TLs gone.

All Solos gone.

All non-MMC E200s gone.

Heavy duty single deckers onto the demanding routes at Redcar, and the 'X' routes at Stockton (plus the 5) and Darlington.

Increase in decker capacity at Durham.

Better X93/4 and P1/2 allocation.

I think that shows the scale of investment needed to get the fleet into a decent condition, but also how it's absolutely going to need to be spread out rather than focusing just on one depot.

Andreos1

14,264

12 Nov 2023, 10:14 am #34

(11 Nov 2023, 9:30 pm)Storx Aye possible, does anyone actually know if there's anyone senior actually based there as usually the HQ rather than the registered address is their base which is the London office.

I think Barbour and Fishermen's Friends still have their HQ at both don't they?

Yeah, well and it's always been there to be fair. Why move you're whole team for the sake of it - plus the rent is cheap aswell. I always find it odd that the First HQ is basically still just an office slammed on the side of their main depot in Aberdeen. Not even a nice shiny building in a business park or in the city centre. Suppose could pay for your staff not wasting money on offices in central London or Grey Street.

Yeah, that was my point.
The historical and political locations are often used for PR, Marketing and other reasons.

To move may not mean much on paper, but has the potential to cause issues from other perspectives.

There's probably many others locally, such as Greggs who could quite easily move away from their traditional heartlands.
Then you've got S&N following the purchase by Heineken and the reputational damage caused to Newcastle Brown Ale by moving production elsewhere

'Illegitimis non carborundum'

Andreos1

12 Nov 2023, 10:14 am #34

(11 Nov 2023, 9:30 pm)Storx Aye possible, does anyone actually know if there's anyone senior actually based there as usually the HQ rather than the registered address is their base which is the London office.

I think Barbour and Fishermen's Friends still have their HQ at both don't they?

Yeah, well and it's always been there to be fair. Why move you're whole team for the sake of it - plus the rent is cheap aswell. I always find it odd that the First HQ is basically still just an office slammed on the side of their main depot in Aberdeen. Not even a nice shiny building in a business park or in the city centre. Suppose could pay for your staff not wasting money on offices in central London or Grey Street.

'Illegitimis non carborundum'

Storx

4,654

12 Nov 2023, 10:19 am #35

(12 Nov 2023, 10:14 am)Andreos1 Yeah, that was my point.
The historical and political locations are often used for PR, Marketing and other reasons.

To move may not mean much on paper, but has the potential to cause issues from other perspectives.

There's probably many others locally, such as Greggs who could quite easily move away from their traditional heartlands.
Then you've got S&N following the purchase by Heineken and the reputational damage caused to Newcastle Brown Ale by moving production elsewhere

Yeah get you now, mind if GNE pull out. I'm sure moving the address away would be the least of their problems Tongue

Arguably ideal time to do it, double blow at the same time. I'm sure some people would be pleased to see them piss off atm, especially if you're one of those currently stranded in Houghton or wherever.

Storx

12 Nov 2023, 10:19 am #35

(12 Nov 2023, 10:14 am)Andreos1 Yeah, that was my point.
The historical and political locations are often used for PR, Marketing and other reasons.

To move may not mean much on paper, but has the potential to cause issues from other perspectives.

There's probably many others locally, such as Greggs who could quite easily move away from their traditional heartlands.
Then you've got S&N following the purchase by Heineken and the reputational damage caused to Newcastle Brown Ale by moving production elsewhere

Yeah get you now, mind if GNE pull out. I'm sure moving the address away would be the least of their problems Tongue

Jimmi

10,978

12 Nov 2023, 1:04 pm #36

(11 Nov 2023, 11:08 pm)mb134 Outside of those, you look at the 7 at Durham/Darlington, same with the 1 now the X1 has been cut. Wasn't the 6 also a route which needed deckers when converted to Sapphire? In terms of growth, you'd say even the X66/67 would be a logical route to put deckers onto if the growth on there continues - it's certainly more cost effective than increasing the frequency again.

The amount of times the X93/4 were single deckers this year is laughable and given 7424-6 are still going you'd think there is no plan in place to replace them for next summer yet, where they'll likely make 1 attempt at an X94, die on a hill, spend 2 months VOR, then plod around on the 62 again.

(11 Nov 2023, 11:29 pm)Storx Probably a bit of a debate about most routes at Durham, Ashington, Darlington and Blyth whether they should have full length single deckers. Most routes at Durham it's either too little capacity, or complete overkill.

As far as I'm aware pretty much everything is having problems. I know there's some very comfortable looking buses on the 5/X26/X27 in Darlington aswell when I've been down there and stuff like the 49, 56, 58 etc they're complete overkill.

(12 Nov 2023, 8:06 am)Storx
Mind I don't really expect it tbh. Mind I'd be looking at displacing the 67 plate Streetlites out of Darlington. They're too short for the 1/5/7 so are a bit of a problem bus there currently.

6 only really required double deckers because of interworking patterns with scholars, which is no longer required, 865 is now tagged onto the 8/8A at Darlington depot which requires a double decker to be allocated to one board.

I would like to see some investment into the the 1/5 & 7 at Darlington, those short Lites and Pulsars 1514-16 having 4 seats less than their counterparts can show at times, can't say I was thrilled at having to sit in the buggy bay of 1603 for 40 minutes on the 5 home the other evening. Could do with some more deckers at Darlington to cover the required decker boards and also allow more to be allocated to the 7 again as some runs at peak times really do struggle, not unheard of nowadays for people to be left behind in Durham around 16:00 as single deckers can't take the loads.

Think the only run at Durham that requires double deckers (minus the 7) is the X46 and even this is mainly at peak times, naturally to ensure this is met, there needs to be some spares which end up on all sorts of other routes, sometimes dependent on delays or just whatever's avaliable.

X93/X94 really needs something doing with it, the amount of single deckers on it this year was an embarrassment and makes the idea of using it again off putting. The changes of routes at Redcar recently does allow more flexibility into the allocation of double deckers between Redcar/Whitby, so would be nice if more could be left to linger around on the 62 when not required on the X93/X94. Have heard rumours that 7609/10 may not be going on the Whitby Park & Ride next year but unsure how true that is, if at all.

My YouTube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9HTKdt...fk4ab9rDjQ
My Flickr https://www.flickr.com/photos/127079988@N02/

Jimmi

12 Nov 2023, 1:04 pm #36

(11 Nov 2023, 11:08 pm)mb134 Outside of those, you look at the 7 at Durham/Darlington, same with the 1 now the X1 has been cut. Wasn't the 6 also a route which needed deckers when converted to Sapphire? In terms of growth, you'd say even the X66/67 would be a logical route to put deckers onto if the growth on there continues - it's certainly more cost effective than increasing the frequency again.

The amount of times the X93/4 were single deckers this year is laughable and given 7424-6 are still going you'd think there is no plan in place to replace them for next summer yet, where they'll likely make 1 attempt at an X94, die on a hill, spend 2 months VOR, then plod around on the 62 again.

(11 Nov 2023, 11:29 pm)Storx Probably a bit of a debate about most routes at Durham, Ashington, Darlington and Blyth whether they should have full length single deckers. Most routes at Durham it's either too little capacity, or complete overkill.

As far as I'm aware pretty much everything is having problems. I know there's some very comfortable looking buses on the 5/X26/X27 in Darlington aswell when I've been down there and stuff like the 49, 56, 58 etc they're complete overkill.

(12 Nov 2023, 8:06 am)Storx
Mind I don't really expect it tbh. Mind I'd be looking at displacing the 67 plate Streetlites out of Darlington. They're too short for the 1/5/7 so are a bit of a problem bus there currently.

My YouTube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9HTKdt...fk4ab9rDjQ
My Flickr https://www.flickr.com/photos/127079988@N02/

Storx

4,654

12 Nov 2023, 1:27 pm #37

(12 Nov 2023, 1:04 pm)Jimmi 6 only really required double deckers because of interworking patterns with scholars, which is no longer required, 865 is now tagged onto the 8/8A at Darlington depot which requires a double decker to be allocated to one board.

I would like to see some investment into the the 1/5 & 7 at Darlington, those short Lites and Pulsars 1514-16 having 4 seats less than their counterparts can show at times, can't say I was thrilled at having to sit in the buggy bay of 1603 for 40 minutes on the 5 home the other evening. Could do with some more deckers at Darlington to cover the required decker boards and also allow more to be allocated to the 7 again as some runs at peak times really do struggle, not unheard of nowadays for people to be left behind in Durham around 16:00 as single deckers can't take the loads.

Think the only run at Durham that requires double deckers (minus the 7) is the X46 and even this is mainly at peak times, naturally to ensure this is met, there needs to be some spares which end up on all sorts of other routes, sometimes dependent on delays or just whatever's avaliable.

X93/X94 really needs something doing with it, the amount of single deckers on it this year was an embarrassment and makes the idea of using it again off putting. The changes of routes at Redcar recently does allow more flexibility into the allocation of double deckers between Redcar/Whitby, so would be nice if more could be left to linger around on the 62 when not required on the X93/X94. Have heard rumours that 7609/10 may not be going on the Whitby Park & Ride next year but unsure how true that is, if at all.

Honestly agree with all that.

For the X93/X94, I think it's a route they need to be more creative with. Personally, I'd be looking at routes that have a christmas rush and see if they work them with that, the 64 at Durham is the route I'm going to pick here.

So you'd do something like 12 DD's and 5 SD's and the Summer months you have all the deckers allocated at Whitby doing the P&R, X93/X94, and the SD's at Durham when it's less quite due to the college being shut etc but then in the winter month flip the allocation. So most the deckers are at Durham and a mixed allocation of SD's and DD's are at Whitby. There's no need for a full allocation of Decker's in the winter and it would give them a chance for some recovery rather than being rat arsed on the X93 for 12 months of the year.

There might be other routes, you could look at other than the 64 which are similar. So you'd end up with something like

Summer:

Whitby: 10 DD + 0 SD
Durham: 2 DD + 5 SD

Winter:

Whitby: 4 DD + 5 SD
Durham: 8 DD + 0 SD

DD's and X4 SD's out over the season for heavy maintenance to get them up to spec for the next summer so we don't have a repeat of this time round. If there's further issues at Whitby then you take the 2 DD's from Durham and there's no repeat of the farce this year. Any spare deckers at Redcar are on the 62.

Storx

12 Nov 2023, 1:27 pm #37

(12 Nov 2023, 1:04 pm)Jimmi 6 only really required double deckers because of interworking patterns with scholars, which is no longer required, 865 is now tagged onto the 8/8A at Darlington depot which requires a double decker to be allocated to one board.

I would like to see some investment into the the 1/5 & 7 at Darlington, those short Lites and Pulsars 1514-16 having 4 seats less than their counterparts can show at times, can't say I was thrilled at having to sit in the buggy bay of 1603 for 40 minutes on the 5 home the other evening. Could do with some more deckers at Darlington to cover the required decker boards and also allow more to be allocated to the 7 again as some runs at peak times really do struggle, not unheard of nowadays for people to be left behind in Durham around 16:00 as single deckers can't take the loads.

Think the only run at Durham that requires double deckers (minus the 7) is the X46 and even this is mainly at peak times, naturally to ensure this is met, there needs to be some spares which end up on all sorts of other routes, sometimes dependent on delays or just whatever's avaliable.

X93/X94 really needs something doing with it, the amount of single deckers on it this year was an embarrassment and makes the idea of using it again off putting. The changes of routes at Redcar recently does allow more flexibility into the allocation of double deckers between Redcar/Whitby, so would be nice if more could be left to linger around on the 62 when not required on the X93/X94. Have heard rumours that 7609/10 may not be going on the Whitby Park & Ride next year but unsure how true that is, if at all.

mb134

4,168

12 Nov 2023, 2:18 pm #38

(12 Nov 2023, 8:06 am)Storx Aye can't disagree with that too much, mind you've forgot the electrics at Blyth which I assume will see off some of that already though. Assuming it's going to display the 57/58 plates out of Northumbria and no doubt Pulsars beyond but that's a bit more unknown.

Guess it'll depend whether they want to keep the newer Enviros at Blyth and use them on the X7/X8/X9 and displace the Pulsars instead of send them to Durham or wherever.

Honestly I'm not expecting those electrics to arrive at any point soon, it seems like since the announcement in January there's been nothing else on them bar the charging points being installed at Blyth - but logically if they're redoing the depot anyway, it would make sense to install those?

Thinking behind the newer E400s leaving Blyth was purely to displace the 58 plates at Ashington, it doesn't make sense to send them DB300s which would be oddballs and also needing replacing soon-ish.

(12 Nov 2023, 8:06 am)Storx Mind I don't really expect it tbh. Mind I'd be looking at displacing the 67 plate Streetlites out of Darlington. They're too short for the 1/5/7 so are a bit of a problem bus there currently.

(12 Nov 2023, 1:04 pm)Jimmi I would like to see some investment into the the 1/5 & 7 at Darlington, those short Lites and Pulsars 1514-16 having 4 seats less than their counterparts can show at times, can't say I was thrilled at having to sit in the buggy bay of 1603 for 40 minutes on the 5 home the other evening. Could do with some more deckers at Darlington to cover the required decker boards and also allow more to be allocated to the 7 again as some runs at peak times really do struggle, not unheard of nowadays for people to be left behind in Durham around 16:00 as single deckers can't take the loads.

With the idea I'd posted, I think I'd intended the 67 plate Streetlites to end up on the 2 & 8 at Darlington. It would leave 5 spare, which would pretty much be the single deck/minibus spare allocation at the depot. I don't really know where else you send them, they're a pretty bad batch of buses reliability wise too, and so keeping them where they have always been might be the best solution?

You'd then have 1473/4/6/7/8 and 1507/8/9/11 to use on the 1, and then 1590-4 and 1514-6 and 1522 for the 7. Thinking was that the movement down of 7523/39/56 would be an improvement on reliability compared to 7518-20 so they'd actually be available.

I suppose you could do a batch of E400 MMCs (say the 16x I'd put down for Durham) for Darlington to fully cover the 7, and the other boards which need deckers, then send 7534-8/40 to Durham (plus 7556) which would allow the B7TLs and 7510 to be withdrawn. 7609/10 would replace 7511/2.

(12 Nov 2023, 1:04 pm)Jimmi 6 only really required double deckers because of interworking patterns with scholars, which is no longer required, 865 is now tagged onto the 8/8A at Darlington depot which requires a double decker to be allocated to one board.

Think the only run at Durham that requires double deckers (minus the 7) is the X46 and even this is mainly at peak times, naturally to ensure this is met, there needs to be some spares which end up on all sorts of other routes, sometimes dependent on delays or just whatever's avaliable.

I think there's the X46, then also a few boards on the 6 & 22, and the ED2? Obviously at the moment the deckers there are very much end of life so I'd hazard a guess at them being allocated to the likes of the 43/64 is more a reflection of their inability to do a 6/22 rather than the need of them on the 43/64.

mb134

12 Nov 2023, 2:18 pm #38

(12 Nov 2023, 8:06 am)Storx Aye can't disagree with that too much, mind you've forgot the electrics at Blyth which I assume will see off some of that already though. Assuming it's going to display the 57/58 plates out of Northumbria and no doubt Pulsars beyond but that's a bit more unknown.

Guess it'll depend whether they want to keep the newer Enviros at Blyth and use them on the X7/X8/X9 and displace the Pulsars instead of send them to Durham or wherever.

(12 Nov 2023, 8:06 am)Storx Mind I don't really expect it tbh. Mind I'd be looking at displacing the 67 plate Streetlites out of Darlington. They're too short for the 1/5/7 so are a bit of a problem bus there currently.

(12 Nov 2023, 1:04 pm)Jimmi I would like to see some investment into the the 1/5 & 7 at Darlington, those short Lites and Pulsars 1514-16 having 4 seats less than their counterparts can show at times, can't say I was thrilled at having to sit in the buggy bay of 1603 for 40 minutes on the 5 home the other evening. Could do with some more deckers at Darlington to cover the required decker boards and also allow more to be allocated to the 7 again as some runs at peak times really do struggle, not unheard of nowadays for people to be left behind in Durham around 16:00 as single deckers can't take the loads.

(12 Nov 2023, 1:04 pm)Jimmi 6 only really required double deckers because of interworking patterns with scholars, which is no longer required, 865 is now tagged onto the 8/8A at Darlington depot which requires a double decker to be allocated to one board.

Think the only run at Durham that requires double deckers (minus the 7) is the X46 and even this is mainly at peak times, naturally to ensure this is met, there needs to be some spares which end up on all sorts of other routes, sometimes dependent on delays or just whatever's avaliable.

mb134

4,168

12 Nov 2023, 2:34 pm #39

(12 Nov 2023, 1:27 pm)Storx Honestly agree with all that.

For the X93/X94, I think it's a route they need to be more creative with. Personally, I'd be looking at routes that have a christmas rush and see if they work them with that, the 64 at Durham is the route I'm going to pick here.

So you'd do something like 12 DD's and 5 SD's and the Summer months you have all the deckers allocated at Whitby doing the P&R, X93/X94, and the SD's at Durham when it's less quite due to the college being shut etc but then in the winter month flip the allocation. So most the deckers are at Durham and a mixed allocation of SD's and DD's are at Whitby. There's no need for a full allocation of Decker's in the winter and it would give them a chance for some recovery rather than being rat arsed on the X93 for 12 months of the year.

DD's and X4 SD's out over the season for heavy maintenance to get them up to spec for the next summer so we don't have a repeat of this time round. If there's further issues at Whitby then you take the 2 DD's from Durham and there's no repeat of the farce this year. Any spare deckers at Redcar are on the 62.

I think it possibly makes more sense to keep them all at Redcar than doing constant swaps with Durham, who realistically aren't the right depot to be sending buses to which might need engineering attention. As well, the "summer season" now seems to stretch to the start of November, so you'd not be sending the deckers back to Durham until well after college has started back up again.

Retaining 7401-6 would allow you to take some of the MMCs off the X93 over the winter for maintenance as required, and as Jimmi pointed out they can be used on the 62 now. It would give Redcar 13 deckers over the summer to play with, which is an additional 2 compared to this year, and the added bonus of 3 of them not being 7424-6.

If you were to swap them, I'd say Darlington might be more realistic? Once the summer season is over, you could send some there (including 7401-6) for use on the X66/7 in the run up to Christmas, with the added bonus of being able to plan easy swaps between depots if needed.

mb134

12 Nov 2023, 2:34 pm #39

(12 Nov 2023, 1:27 pm)Storx Honestly agree with all that.

For the X93/X94, I think it's a route they need to be more creative with. Personally, I'd be looking at routes that have a christmas rush and see if they work them with that, the 64 at Durham is the route I'm going to pick here.

So you'd do something like 12 DD's and 5 SD's and the Summer months you have all the deckers allocated at Whitby doing the P&R, X93/X94, and the SD's at Durham when it's less quite due to the college being shut etc but then in the winter month flip the allocation. So most the deckers are at Durham and a mixed allocation of SD's and DD's are at Whitby. There's no need for a full allocation of Decker's in the winter and it would give them a chance for some recovery rather than being rat arsed on the X93 for 12 months of the year.

DD's and X4 SD's out over the season for heavy maintenance to get them up to spec for the next summer so we don't have a repeat of this time round. If there's further issues at Whitby then you take the 2 DD's from Durham and there's no repeat of the farce this year. Any spare deckers at Redcar are on the 62.

Shrek

212

12 Nov 2023, 2:47 pm #40

(12 Nov 2023, 2:18 pm)mb134 Honestly I'm not expecting those electrics to arrive at any point soon, it seems like since the announcement in January there's been nothing else on them bar the charging points being installed at Blyth - but logically if they're redoing the depot anyway, it would make sense to install those?

I think they were talking about late 2024 or early 2025 for the arrival of the new electrics for the 43/44/45/47. Government funding never arrives quickly, but it is all confirmed and is happening.

Shrek

12 Nov 2023, 2:47 pm #40

(12 Nov 2023, 2:18 pm)mb134 Honestly I'm not expecting those electrics to arrive at any point soon, it seems like since the announcement in January there's been nothing else on them bar the charging points being installed at Blyth - but logically if they're redoing the depot anyway, it would make sense to install those?

I think they were talking about late 2024 or early 2025 for the arrival of the new electrics for the 43/44/45/47. Government funding never arrives quickly, but it is all confirmed and is happening.

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