Arriva Purchased by I Squared
Arriva Purchased by I Squared
(12 Nov 2023, 2:34 pm)mb134 I think it possibly makes more sense to keep them all at Redcar than doing constant swaps with Durham, who realistically aren't the right depot to be sending buses to which might need engineering attention. As well, the "summer season" now seems to stretch to the start of November, so you'd not be sending the deckers back to Durham until well after college has started back up again.
Retaining 7401-6 would allow you to take some of the MMCs off the X93 over the winter for maintenance as required, and as Jimmi pointed out they can be used on the 62 now. It would give Redcar 13 deckers over the summer to play with, which is an additional 2 compared to this year, and the added bonus of 3 of them not being 7424-6.
If you were to swap them, I'd say Darlington might be more realistic? Once the summer season is over, you could send some there (including 7401-6) for use on the X66/7 in the run up to Christmas, with the added bonus of being able to plan easy swaps between depots if needed.
(12 Nov 2023, 2:34 pm)mb134 I think it possibly makes more sense to keep them all at Redcar than doing constant swaps with Durham, who realistically aren't the right depot to be sending buses to which might need engineering attention. As well, the "summer season" now seems to stretch to the start of November, so you'd not be sending the deckers back to Durham until well after college has started back up again.
Retaining 7401-6 would allow you to take some of the MMCs off the X93 over the winter for maintenance as required, and as Jimmi pointed out they can be used on the 62 now. It would give Redcar 13 deckers over the summer to play with, which is an additional 2 compared to this year, and the added bonus of 3 of them not being 7424-6.
If you were to swap them, I'd say Darlington might be more realistic? Once the summer season is over, you could send some there (including 7401-6) for use on the X66/7 in the run up to Christmas, with the added bonus of being able to plan easy swaps between depots if needed.
(12 Nov 2023, 2:47 pm)Shrek I think they were talking about late 2024 or early 2025 for the arrival of the new electrics for the 43/44/45/47. Government funding never arrives quickly, but it is all confirmed and is happening.Would 13x deckers be enough for the 43/44/45 given the half hourly Morpeth extension and increased layover?
(12 Nov 2023, 2:47 pm)Shrek I think they were talking about late 2024 or early 2025 for the arrival of the new electrics for the 43/44/45/47. Government funding never arrives quickly, but it is all confirmed and is happening.Would 13x deckers be enough for the 43/44/45 given the half hourly Morpeth extension and increased layover?
(12 Nov 2023, 3:02 pm)L469 YVK Would 13x deckers be enough for the 43/44/45 given the half hourly Morpeth extension and increased layover?
Could be a case for Arriva to regain the 53/353 (if GNE bail out) and extend to Morpeth as no doubt they'll have room to come 2025.
(12 Nov 2023, 3:02 pm)L469 YVK Would 13x deckers be enough for the 43/44/45 given the half hourly Morpeth extension and increased layover?
Could be a case for Arriva to regain the 53/353 (if GNE bail out) and extend to Morpeth as no doubt they'll have room to come 2025.
(12 Nov 2023, 2:18 pm)mb134 Honestly I'm not expecting those electrics to arrive at any point soon, it seems like since the announcement in January there's been nothing else on them bar the charging points being installed at Blyth - but logically if they're redoing the depot anyway, it would make sense to install those?Some runs on the 64 very much need double deck capacity but for most of the day,even when busy, the nature of the typical passenger and their journey (mainly older people and young families mostly lugging bags of shopping in one direction of their short hop journey) a full length single decker seems to be optimal.
Thinking behind the newer E400s leaving Blyth was purely to displace the 58 plates at Ashington, it doesn't make sense to send them DB300s which would be oddballs and also needing replacing soon-ish.
With the idea I'd posted, I think I'd intended the 67 plate Streetlites to end up on the 2 & 8 at Darlington. It would leave 5 spare, which would pretty much be the single deck/minibus spare allocation at the depot. I don't really know where else you send them, they're a pretty bad batch of buses reliability wise too, and so keeping them where they have always been might be the best solution?
You'd then have 1473/4/6/7/8 and 1507/8/9/11 to use on the 1, and then 1590-4 and 1514-6 and 1522 for the 7. Thinking was that the movement down of 7523/39/56 would be an improvement on reliability compared to 7518-20 so they'd actually be available.
I suppose you could do a batch of E400 MMCs (say the 16x I'd put down for Durham) for Darlington to fully cover the 7, and the other boards which need deckers, then send 7534-8/40 to Durham (plus 7556) which would allow the B7TLs and 7510 to be withdrawn. 7609/10 would replace 7511/2.
I think there's the X46, then also a few boards on the 6 & 22, and the ED2? Obviously at the moment the deckers there are very much end of life so I'd hazard a guess at them being allocated to the likes of the 43/64 is more a reflection of their inability to do a 6/22 rather than the need of them on the 43/64.
(12 Nov 2023, 2:18 pm)mb134 Honestly I'm not expecting those electrics to arrive at any point soon, it seems like since the announcement in January there's been nothing else on them bar the charging points being installed at Blyth - but logically if they're redoing the depot anyway, it would make sense to install those?Some runs on the 64 very much need double deck capacity but for most of the day,even when busy, the nature of the typical passenger and their journey (mainly older people and young families mostly lugging bags of shopping in one direction of their short hop journey) a full length single decker seems to be optimal.
Thinking behind the newer E400s leaving Blyth was purely to displace the 58 plates at Ashington, it doesn't make sense to send them DB300s which would be oddballs and also needing replacing soon-ish.
With the idea I'd posted, I think I'd intended the 67 plate Streetlites to end up on the 2 & 8 at Darlington. It would leave 5 spare, which would pretty much be the single deck/minibus spare allocation at the depot. I don't really know where else you send them, they're a pretty bad batch of buses reliability wise too, and so keeping them where they have always been might be the best solution?
You'd then have 1473/4/6/7/8 and 1507/8/9/11 to use on the 1, and then 1590-4 and 1514-6 and 1522 for the 7. Thinking was that the movement down of 7523/39/56 would be an improvement on reliability compared to 7518-20 so they'd actually be available.
I suppose you could do a batch of E400 MMCs (say the 16x I'd put down for Durham) for Darlington to fully cover the 7, and the other boards which need deckers, then send 7534-8/40 to Durham (plus 7556) which would allow the B7TLs and 7510 to be withdrawn. 7609/10 would replace 7511/2.
I think there's the X46, then also a few boards on the 6 & 22, and the ED2? Obviously at the moment the deckers there are very much end of life so I'd hazard a guess at them being allocated to the likes of the 43/64 is more a reflection of their inability to do a 6/22 rather than the need of them on the 43/64.
(12 Nov 2023, 2:51 pm)Storx Aye see my thinking was more about actually getting them. I'm not sure the X93/X94 alone would have the power to get new buses. They basically had to beg to get the B9's for it and that was during a time we were seeing massive investment for the area.
(12 Nov 2023, 2:51 pm)Storx Aye see my thinking was more about actually getting them. I'm not sure the X93/X94 alone would have the power to get new buses. They basically had to beg to get the B9's for it and that was during a time we were seeing massive investment for the area.
(12 Nov 2023, 4:21 pm)L469 YVK Think it was more with them being 'dealer stock' plus getting good discounts and being known vehicles at the time to handle such route.
Shame they weren't replaced back when 5 year old as they would've done for the X14/X20 with Euro 6 mods....but they're a bit long in the tooth now for that sort of work! Probably had the hardest lives out of all the B9TLs in the North East closely followed by 6043-48.
(12 Nov 2023, 4:21 pm)L469 YVK Think it was more with them being 'dealer stock' plus getting good discounts and being known vehicles at the time to handle such route.
Shame they weren't replaced back when 5 year old as they would've done for the X14/X20 with Euro 6 mods....but they're a bit long in the tooth now for that sort of work! Probably had the hardest lives out of all the B9TLs in the North East closely followed by 6043-48.
(12 Nov 2023, 5:05 pm)Storx Aye it was, I believe. It always seems a hard bus to get investment and always seems to get hand me downs. Wouldn't be surprised at all if they end up gaining some Enviro 400 (MMC's) from Yorkshire when their 47 electrics turn up. Quite a few buses will be moving out from there. It's all one area now, prettty much.
Wouldn't be too surprised to see 7609/7610/7618/7619/7626/7627 all return to Blyth either and get the Pulsar's off the express work with E6 mods.
(12 Nov 2023, 5:05 pm)Storx Aye it was, I believe. It always seems a hard bus to get investment and always seems to get hand me downs. Wouldn't be surprised at all if they end up gaining some Enviro 400 (MMC's) from Yorkshire when their 47 electrics turn up. Quite a few buses will be moving out from there. It's all one area now, prettty much.
Wouldn't be too surprised to see 7609/7610/7618/7619/7626/7627 all return to Blyth either and get the Pulsar's off the express work with E6 mods.
(13 Nov 2023, 5:25 pm)megansmith sorry to say but 7609 10 won't be retune to Blyth
(13 Nov 2023, 5:25 pm)megansmith sorry to say but 7609 10 won't be retune to Blyth
(13 Nov 2023, 7:27 pm)Storx Can't see them staying at Redcar personally, I have a feeling with the new buses in Yorkshire, they'll send something newer to sort the mess out at Whitby and the B9's will take over their role and to get arid of the remaining B7's unless something comes first.
Yorkshire are also desperate for single deckers and we're desperate for deckers.
When they gain their 47 Deckers, after they've withdrawn their 25 older deckers, it would make logical sense to send some of the 22 newer deckers they've got up here in return for Pulsars or to withdraw the oldest deckers here. I highly doubt they'll be withdrawing DB300's in Yorkshire (the next oldest bus).
One logical move would be
Wakefield 11x B5LH -> Heckmondwick
Heckmondwick 11x DB300 -> Blyth
Blyth 11x Pulsar -> Wakefield
Wakefield 11x B7BLE -> Withdrawn
Redcar are still having decker issues now
Simarly you could do the same with the 15 Plate Enviro 400's to Darlington either in return for their Pulsars to get arid of their Commanders down there.
(13 Nov 2023, 7:27 pm)Storx Can't see them staying at Redcar personally, I have a feeling with the new buses in Yorkshire, they'll send something newer to sort the mess out at Whitby and the B9's will take over their role and to get arid of the remaining B7's unless something comes first.
Yorkshire are also desperate for single deckers and we're desperate for deckers.
When they gain their 47 Deckers, after they've withdrawn their 25 older deckers, it would make logical sense to send some of the 22 newer deckers they've got up here in return for Pulsars or to withdraw the oldest deckers here. I highly doubt they'll be withdrawing DB300's in Yorkshire (the next oldest bus).
One logical move would be
Wakefield 11x B5LH -> Heckmondwick
Heckmondwick 11x DB300 -> Blyth
Blyth 11x Pulsar -> Wakefield
Wakefield 11x B7BLE -> Withdrawn
Redcar are still having decker issues now
Simarly you could do the same with the 15 Plate Enviro 400's to Darlington either in return for their Pulsars to get arid of their Commanders down there.
Arriva finance policy now dictates 18 years of life for any vehicles (depreciated over 15 years), so only buses that have hit that 18 years of age will be potentially replaced.
Not a popular decision internally to be honest! This may change now that iSquared will be calling the shots.
From what I've been told though, subject to major short term plan changes, the commercial and engineering team have been tasked with reviewing current DD allocations Vs where there are actually needed, which may see some permanent DD movements to places like Redcar or Darlington for example.
However, I am reliably informed that 7609/7610 will be running on Whitby P&R next year to put that rumour to bed. Also, a belief that all of the B7s currently in service in ANE are already planned to be replaced with new at some point in 2024 (subject to manufacturing lead in times).
(14 Nov 2023, 8:30 pm)RobinHood Arriva finance policy now dictates 18 years of life for any vehicles (depreciated over 15 years), so only buses that have hit that 18 years of age will be potentially replaced.
Not a popular decision internally to be honest! This may change now that iSquared will be calling the shots.
From what I've been told though, subject to major short term plan changes, the commercial and engineering team have been tasked with reviewing current DD allocations Vs where there are actually needed, which may see some permanent DD movements to places like Redcar or Darlington for example.
However, I am reliably informed that 7609/7610 will be running on Whitby P&R next year to put that rumour to bed. Also, a belief that all of the B7s currently in service in ANE are already planned to be replaced with new at some point in 2024 (subject to manufacturing lead in times).
(14 Nov 2023, 8:30 pm)RobinHood Arriva finance policy now dictates 18 years of life for any vehicles (depreciated over 15 years), so only buses that have hit that 18 years of age will be potentially replaced.
Not a popular decision internally to be honest! This may change now that iSquared will be calling the shots.
From what I've been told though, subject to major short term plan changes, the commercial and engineering team have been tasked with reviewing current DD allocations Vs where there are actually needed, which may see some permanent DD movements to places like Redcar or Darlington for example.
However, I am reliably informed that 7609/7610 will be running on Whitby P&R next year to put that rumour to bed. Also, a belief that all of the B7s currently in service in ANE are already planned to be replaced with new at some point in 2024 (subject to manufacturing lead in times).
(14 Nov 2023, 9:30 pm)solsburian Please correct me if I'm wrong, but older step entrance busses would usually last more than 20 years, with the caveat that they were robust far more robust and of heavier construction compared to a modern low floor bus. Having said that, if they give thier fleet some TLC inside and out, I'm sure many members the fleet could reach that age without issues.
(14 Nov 2023, 9:30 pm)solsburian Please correct me if I'm wrong, but older step entrance busses would usually last more than 20 years, with the caveat that they were robust far more robust and of heavier construction compared to a modern low floor bus. Having said that, if they give thier fleet some TLC inside and out, I'm sure many members the fleet could reach that age without issues.
(14 Nov 2023, 8:30 pm)RobinHood Arriva finance policy now dictates 18 years of life for any vehicles (depreciated over 15 years), so only buses that have hit that 18 years of age will be potentially replaced.
Not a popular decision internally to be honest! This may change now that iSquared will be calling the shots.
From what I've been told though, subject to major short term plan changes, the commercial and engineering team have been tasked with reviewing current DD allocations Vs where there are actually needed, which may see some permanent DD movements to places like Redcar or Darlington for example.
However, I am reliably informed that 7609/7610 will be running on Whitby P&R next year to put that rumour to bed. Also, a belief that all of the B7s currently in service in ANE are already planned to be replaced with new at some point in 2024 (subject to manufacturing lead in times).
(14 Nov 2023, 8:30 pm)RobinHood Arriva finance policy now dictates 18 years of life for any vehicles (depreciated over 15 years), so only buses that have hit that 18 years of age will be potentially replaced.
Not a popular decision internally to be honest! This may change now that iSquared will be calling the shots.
From what I've been told though, subject to major short term plan changes, the commercial and engineering team have been tasked with reviewing current DD allocations Vs where there are actually needed, which may see some permanent DD movements to places like Redcar or Darlington for example.
However, I am reliably informed that 7609/7610 will be running on Whitby P&R next year to put that rumour to bed. Also, a belief that all of the B7s currently in service in ANE are already planned to be replaced with new at some point in 2024 (subject to manufacturing lead in times).
(14 Nov 2023, 9:39 pm)RobinHood Modern buses are rattling to bits within weeks of hitting the road nowadays. You are right, with the correct level of TLC any bus should reach 20+ years, most operators will work to around 15-18 years life expectancy. After this time, vehicle is normally fully depreciated.
Some will live on, but a major until failure will usually mean withdrawal.
Some operators use fully depreciated vehicles on school work, as the prices are usually very close and it can be the difference in winning or not.
(14 Nov 2023, 10:07 pm)Storx I'm assuming the change under DB, is more to the point that someone has realised there's absolutely tonnes of buses coming up in the next 3 years and to put it simply it's kicking the rather large can down the road.
Interesting to see what the DD plans, as I can't think of many routes in Northumbria with decker's on which don't need the deckers at all.
(14 Nov 2023, 9:39 pm)RobinHood Modern buses are rattling to bits within weeks of hitting the road nowadays. You are right, with the correct level of TLC any bus should reach 20+ years, most operators will work to around 15-18 years life expectancy. After this time, vehicle is normally fully depreciated.
Some will live on, but a major until failure will usually mean withdrawal.
Some operators use fully depreciated vehicles on school work, as the prices are usually very close and it can be the difference in winning or not.
(14 Nov 2023, 10:07 pm)Storx I'm assuming the change under DB, is more to the point that someone has realised there's absolutely tonnes of buses coming up in the next 3 years and to put it simply it's kicking the rather large can down the road.
Interesting to see what the DD plans, as I can't think of many routes in Northumbria with decker's on which don't need the deckers at all.
(14 Nov 2023, 10:21 pm)solsburian There is probably only a handful Northumbria routes that don't warrant a double decker,, perhaps exclusively Ashington's 1, 2, 57/57a, 434, and some 35 runs.
(14 Nov 2023, 10:21 pm)solsburian There is probably only a handful Northumbria routes that don't warrant a double decker,, perhaps exclusively Ashington's 1, 2, 57/57a, 434, and some 35 runs.
(14 Nov 2023, 11:20 pm)mb134 I'd agree.
The 1 & 2 are more than comfortable with single deckers, excluding the one 1 board which gets slammed with college students. The 57/A would be more than fine with saloons, obviously the 434 is never going to need more than a minibus.
All Morpeth services, bar the X16, require deckers. The X14 has now been tied in with school journeys on all three boards, and the X15/18 have always required them. I think there's still a board on the X20 which can get away with a single decker, but they're all very busy to town now and the last time I travelled on a single decker on it people were left at North Seaton.
The X21/22 require them at peaks in particular, all boards I see into town on a morning are packed, and same with the ones I see leaving in an evening. There's realistically the boards which start as the 0734 X22 (though that gets pretty busy on the 1650 X22) and the 0909 X22 which could be done with a single decker, at least from what I've seen.
With the Blyth ones I struggle to see any routes which could be fully single deck, even now when single decks are allocated to the X9/10/11 in the morning they're always a standing load into Newcastle. It's similar with the 43/44/45 on most boards, and of course now some are tied onto school work which require deckers.
It's all well and good saying services don't need deckers during the day, for instance, but people will quickly get fed up of standing on a bus every morning for 20+ minutes. I'd wager that the services in ADC which are being looked at for deckers will be similar - I get that the 7 for example should be, but deckers were literally bought for that and growth on other services has taken them away by the looks of it. The answer should be more deckers in total, not robbing Peter to pay Paul. Redcar needing them is funny, they can barely look after the ones they currently have!
(14 Nov 2023, 11:20 pm)mb134 I'd agree.
The 1 & 2 are more than comfortable with single deckers, excluding the one 1 board which gets slammed with college students. The 57/A would be more than fine with saloons, obviously the 434 is never going to need more than a minibus.
All Morpeth services, bar the X16, require deckers. The X14 has now been tied in with school journeys on all three boards, and the X15/18 have always required them. I think there's still a board on the X20 which can get away with a single decker, but they're all very busy to town now and the last time I travelled on a single decker on it people were left at North Seaton.
The X21/22 require them at peaks in particular, all boards I see into town on a morning are packed, and same with the ones I see leaving in an evening. There's realistically the boards which start as the 0734 X22 (though that gets pretty busy on the 1650 X22) and the 0909 X22 which could be done with a single decker, at least from what I've seen.
With the Blyth ones I struggle to see any routes which could be fully single deck, even now when single decks are allocated to the X9/10/11 in the morning they're always a standing load into Newcastle. It's similar with the 43/44/45 on most boards, and of course now some are tied onto school work which require deckers.
It's all well and good saying services don't need deckers during the day, for instance, but people will quickly get fed up of standing on a bus every morning for 20+ minutes. I'd wager that the services in ADC which are being looked at for deckers will be similar - I get that the 7 for example should be, but deckers were literally bought for that and growth on other services has taken them away by the looks of it. The answer should be more deckers in total, not robbing Peter to pay Paul. Redcar needing them is funny, they can barely look after the ones they currently have!
(15 Nov 2023, 6:55 pm)Storx Can't disagree with that tbh.
Btw, does this involve Yorkshire aswell, since everything is connected? There seems to be an awful number of deckers down there doing routes which seem to be mostly single decker, yet we have too many single deckers up here doing routes that should be deckers. Maybe that might be the swaps instead? Rather than internally within the North East.
They've been taking Pulsar's from here, every chance they can get one.
(15 Nov 2023, 6:55 pm)Storx Can't disagree with that tbh.
Btw, does this involve Yorkshire aswell, since everything is connected? There seems to be an awful number of deckers down there doing routes which seem to be mostly single decker, yet we have too many single deckers up here doing routes that should be deckers. Maybe that might be the swaps instead? Rather than internally within the North East.
They've been taking Pulsar's from here, every chance they can get one.
(15 Nov 2023, 7:06 pm)Bazza Funnily enough I saw a couple of Arriva single deckers heading east on the A69 just outside of Hexham today. Obviously not coming from Yorkshire but seemed to be heading into the Northumbria fold
(15 Nov 2023, 7:06 pm)Bazza Funnily enough I saw a couple of Arriva single deckers heading east on the A69 just outside of Hexham today. Obviously not coming from Yorkshire but seemed to be heading into the Northumbria fold
7610 has transferred to Belmont and is on the 64 today (but isn't tracking on bustimes for some reason). 7609 is still tracking on the X93.
