Spirit Buses
Spirit Buses
Obviously this is only one side of the story, but I fear it's yet another example of why the deregulated market isn't working. Whatever your opinion on the market we have to day, it is not right that people should be risking losing vital transport links.
(09 Sep 2016, 10:18 pm)Adrian Obviously this is only one side of the story, but I fear it's yet another example of why the deregulated market isn't working. Whatever your opinion on the market we have to day, it is not right that people should be risking losing vital transport links.
(09 Sep 2016, 10:18 pm)Adrian Obviously this is only one side of the story, but I fear it's yet another example of why the deregulated market isn't working. Whatever your opinion on the market we have to day, it is not right that people should be risking losing vital transport links.
(10 Sep 2016, 12:56 pm)Cock Robin Yes, I agree with deregulation in principle but there should be a statutory duty on local authorities to provide supported services.
(10 Sep 2016, 12:56 pm)Cock Robin Yes, I agree with deregulation in principle but there should be a statutory duty on local authorities to provide supported services.
(10 Sep 2016, 2:10 pm)G-CPTN By 'provide supported services' do you mean that services such as those provided by Spirit Buses should be run by the local authority?
To me, these services should be 'encouraged' - with interacting services by operators such as Arriva being scheduled to correspond to the Spirit Buses services to allow Spirit Buses to operate profitably within their sphere.
This is presents difficulties, of course, with Arriva (and others) being competitors (and Spirit having limited ability to alter their timings to follow whatever 'Arriva' decide to provide - with Arriva choosing to operate commercially).
And if Spirit succeeded in establishing a profitable operation, wouldn't the bigger operators muscle-in and take over the routes?
The extension of the suggestion would be prohibitively expensive with many buses operating way below capacity.
In some areas, there have been moves to provide dial-a-ride, but I don't know of any such services that are successful.
Of course, if services were cheap enough, then demand would increase - though in sparsely-populated areas this is an impossibility.
I have seen figures for rural services that were previously subsidised by local authority that showed that the cost per ride was way excessive (by anyone's reasoning).
I can remember when several small operators ran rural services (in the 1950s) with many passengers travelling into town on market day.
Today, many of those passengers have cars and choose to travel at their own convenience rather than be restricted to infrequent buses - which deteriorates the bus service until it collapses economically.
(10 Sep 2016, 2:10 pm)G-CPTN By 'provide supported services' do you mean that services such as those provided by Spirit Buses should be run by the local authority?
To me, these services should be 'encouraged' - with interacting services by operators such as Arriva being scheduled to correspond to the Spirit Buses services to allow Spirit Buses to operate profitably within their sphere.
This is presents difficulties, of course, with Arriva (and others) being competitors (and Spirit having limited ability to alter their timings to follow whatever 'Arriva' decide to provide - with Arriva choosing to operate commercially).
And if Spirit succeeded in establishing a profitable operation, wouldn't the bigger operators muscle-in and take over the routes?
The extension of the suggestion would be prohibitively expensive with many buses operating way below capacity.
In some areas, there have been moves to provide dial-a-ride, but I don't know of any such services that are successful.
Of course, if services were cheap enough, then demand would increase - though in sparsely-populated areas this is an impossibility.
I have seen figures for rural services that were previously subsidised by local authority that showed that the cost per ride was way excessive (by anyone's reasoning).
I can remember when several small operators ran rural services (in the 1950s) with many passengers travelling into town on market day.
Today, many of those passengers have cars and choose to travel at their own convenience rather than be restricted to infrequent buses - which deteriorates the bus service until it collapses economically.
(11 Sep 2016, 4:29 pm)Andreos1 That would be fantastic for passengers.Your reply has prompted me to recall the furore caused when GNE and Arriva agreed to swap services and depots (well, at least Hexham and Ashington):-
However, what incentive do potentially competing organisations have to integrate their services? You said yourself that Spirit could grow a market to be then see Arriva muscle in.
To be honest, operators often struggle as it is integrating their own services and connections - never mind seeing two operators work together.
It is a shame seeing the likes of Spirit ponder their future, as a result of other operators commercial decisions.
(11 Sep 2016, 4:29 pm)Andreos1 That would be fantastic for passengers.Your reply has prompted me to recall the furore caused when GNE and Arriva agreed to swap services and depots (well, at least Hexham and Ashington):-
However, what incentive do potentially competing organisations have to integrate their services? You said yourself that Spirit could grow a market to be then see Arriva muscle in.
To be honest, operators often struggle as it is integrating their own services and connections - never mind seeing two operators work together.
It is a shame seeing the likes of Spirit ponder their future, as a result of other operators commercial decisions.
(11 Sep 2016, 5:01 pm)G-CPTN Your reply has prompted me to recall the furore caused when GNE and Arriva agreed to swap services and depots (well, at least Hexham and Ashington):-
Arriva and Go North East secret bus routes deal exposed.
So I guess Arriva would be cautious about agreeing to accommodate Spirit Buses.
It also warns that the short-term retaliation seen by the firms has the long-term effect of deterring competition.
(11 Sep 2016, 5:01 pm)G-CPTN Your reply has prompted me to recall the furore caused when GNE and Arriva agreed to swap services and depots (well, at least Hexham and Ashington):-
Arriva and Go North East secret bus routes deal exposed.
So I guess Arriva would be cautious about agreeing to accommodate Spirit Buses.
It also warns that the short-term retaliation seen by the firms has the long-term effect of deterring competition.
It also warns that the short-term retaliation seen by the firms has the long-term effect of deterring competition.Except that, between Newcastle and Hexham (due to the inconsistent performance of Arriva 685) GNE introduced their own service - by extending a previous service 684 that ran part-way from Hexham to Horsley(?) and this now runs 'faster' than the original Arriva 685 service as X84/X85.
It also warns that the short-term retaliation seen by the firms has the long-term effect of deterring competition.Except that, between Newcastle and Hexham (due to the inconsistent performance of Arriva 685) GNE introduced their own service - by extending a previous service 684 that ran part-way from Hexham to Horsley(?) and this now runs 'faster' than the original Arriva 685 service as X84/X85.
(11 Sep 2016, 9:17 pm)G-CPTN Except that, between Newcastle and Hexham (due to the inconsistent performance of Arriva 685) GNE introduced their own service - by extending a previous service 684 that ran part-way from Hexham to Horsley(?) and this now runs 'faster' than the original Arriva 685 service as X84/X85.
Passengers now have the choice of three services per hour instead of the one (not including the TEN - which was the 602).
(11 Sep 2016, 9:17 pm)G-CPTN Except that, between Newcastle and Hexham (due to the inconsistent performance of Arriva 685) GNE introduced their own service - by extending a previous service 684 that ran part-way from Hexham to Horsley(?) and this now runs 'faster' than the original Arriva 685 service as X84/X85.
Passengers now have the choice of three services per hour instead of the one (not including the TEN - which was the 602).
(11 Sep 2016, 9:34 pm)Andreos1 I agree in some cases, competition will benefit the passenger's along the route. The example you have provided is a clear case of an operator spotting a gap and trying to fill it.
Were those decisions to fill the gap short-term though?
In the case of Spirit, they have cited the extension of the X20, the re-routing of the X15 and a change to the X14 as factors.
This sort of thing may be short-term (or permanent), either way it is having an impact on the likes of Spirit.
(11 Sep 2016, 9:34 pm)Andreos1 I agree in some cases, competition will benefit the passenger's along the route. The example you have provided is a clear case of an operator spotting a gap and trying to fill it.
Were those decisions to fill the gap short-term though?
In the case of Spirit, they have cited the extension of the X20, the re-routing of the X15 and a change to the X14 as factors.
This sort of thing may be short-term (or permanent), either way it is having an impact on the likes of Spirit.
(11 Sep 2016, 9:34 pm)Andreos1 I agree in some cases, competition will benefit the passenger's along the route. The example you have provided is a clear case of an operator spotting a gap and trying to fill it.
Were those decisions to fill the gap short-term though?
In the case of Spirit, they have cited the extension of the X20, the re-routing of the X15 and a change to the X14 as factors.
This sort of thing may be short-term (or permanent), either way it is having an impact on the likes of Spirit.
(11 Sep 2016, 9:34 pm)Andreos1 I agree in some cases, competition will benefit the passenger's along the route. The example you have provided is a clear case of an operator spotting a gap and trying to fill it.
Were those decisions to fill the gap short-term though?
In the case of Spirit, they have cited the extension of the X20, the re-routing of the X15 and a change to the X14 as factors.
This sort of thing may be short-term (or permanent), either way it is having an impact on the likes of Spirit.
(09 Sep 2016, 10:18 pm)Adrian Obviously this is only one side of the story, but I fear it's yet another example of why the deregulated market isn't working. Whatever your opinion on the market we have to day, it is not right that people should be risking losing vital transport links.
(09 Sep 2016, 10:18 pm)Adrian Obviously this is only one side of the story, but I fear it's yet another example of why the deregulated market isn't working. Whatever your opinion on the market we have to day, it is not right that people should be risking losing vital transport links.
(10 Sep 2016, 2:10 pm)G-CPTN By 'provide supported services' do you mean that services such as those provided by Spirit Buses should be run by the local authority?
To me, these services should be 'encouraged' - with interacting services by operators such as Arriva being scheduled to correspond to the Spirit Buses services to allow Spirit Buses to operate profitably within their sphere.
This is presents difficulties, of course, with Arriva (and others) being competitors (and Spirit having limited ability to alter their timings to follow whatever 'Arriva' decide to provide - with Arriva choosing to operate commercially).
And if Spirit succeeded in establishing a profitable operation, wouldn't the bigger operators muscle-in and take over the routes?
The extension of the suggestion would be prohibitively expensive with many buses operating way below capacity.
In some areas, there have been moves to provide dial-a-ride, but I don't know of any such services that are successful.
Of course, if services were cheap enough, then demand would increase - though in sparsely-populated areas this is an impossibility.
I have seen figures for rural services that were previously subsidised by local authority that showed that the cost per ride was way excessive (by anyone's reasoning).
I can remember when several small operators ran rural services (in the 1950s) with many passengers travelling into town on market day.
Today, many of those passengers have cars and choose to travel at their own convenience rather than be restricted to infrequent buses - which deteriorates the bus service until it collapses economically.
(10 Sep 2016, 2:10 pm)G-CPTN By 'provide supported services' do you mean that services such as those provided by Spirit Buses should be run by the local authority?
To me, these services should be 'encouraged' - with interacting services by operators such as Arriva being scheduled to correspond to the Spirit Buses services to allow Spirit Buses to operate profitably within their sphere.
This is presents difficulties, of course, with Arriva (and others) being competitors (and Spirit having limited ability to alter their timings to follow whatever 'Arriva' decide to provide - with Arriva choosing to operate commercially).
And if Spirit succeeded in establishing a profitable operation, wouldn't the bigger operators muscle-in and take over the routes?
The extension of the suggestion would be prohibitively expensive with many buses operating way below capacity.
In some areas, there have been moves to provide dial-a-ride, but I don't know of any such services that are successful.
Of course, if services were cheap enough, then demand would increase - though in sparsely-populated areas this is an impossibility.
I have seen figures for rural services that were previously subsidised by local authority that showed that the cost per ride was way excessive (by anyone's reasoning).
I can remember when several small operators ran rural services (in the 1950s) with many passengers travelling into town on market day.
Today, many of those passengers have cars and choose to travel at their own convenience rather than be restricted to infrequent buses - which deteriorates the bus service until it collapses economically.
(12 Sep 2016, 3:18 pm)Tom Think the X14 is going to operate at a timetable of every 100 minutes with 8 journeys per day - Wonder how this will work on the Newcastle-Morpeth section as it will mess up the 15 minute frequency.
(12 Sep 2016, 3:18 pm)Tom Think the X14 is going to operate at a timetable of every 100 minutes with 8 journeys per day - Wonder how this will work on the Newcastle-Morpeth section as it will mess up the 15 minute frequency.
(13 Sep 2016, 7:14 am)GX03 SVC I believe that there will be extra X16s running between Morpeth and Newcastle to fill the gap left by withdrawn X14s.
If Ashington were to operate these additional X16s, a Scania OmniCity displaced from X14 would be used.
(13 Sep 2016, 7:14 am)GX03 SVC I believe that there will be extra X16s running between Morpeth and Newcastle to fill the gap left by withdrawn X14s.
If Ashington were to operate these additional X16s, a Scania OmniCity displaced from X14 would be used.
Northumberland County Council press release:
http://www.northumberland.gov.uk/News/20...-serv.aspx
(14 Sep 2016, 2:05 pm)eezypeazy Northumberland County Council press release:
http://www.northumberland.gov.uk/News/20...-serv.aspx
(14 Sep 2016, 2:05 pm)eezypeazy Northumberland County Council press release:
http://www.northumberland.gov.uk/News/20...-serv.aspx
