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+--- Thread: X9 | X10 - Acquisition of interdeck coaches from Oxford Bus Company (/showthread.php?tid=2593)
RE: X9 | X10 - Acquisition of interdeck coaches from Oxford Bus Company - scanialover - 26 Jul 2020
Just when I was about to comment on the performance, yesterday, of the B5's on the A19 now we're going to be saddled with this mis-mash of deckers until the coaches get here. The X9/10 has always been the poor relation.
RE: X9 | X10 - Acquisition of interdeck coaches from Oxford Bus Company - Dan - 26 Jul 2020
(26 Jul 2020, 6:45 pm)scanialover Just when I was about to comment on the performance, yesterday, of the B5's on the A19 now we're going to be saddled with this mis-mash of deckers until the coaches get here. The X9/10 has always been the poor relation.
Given that there's been a breakdown on the X9/X10 every day this week (apart from today when Volvo B9s have been allocated), I thought you'd welcome an allocation of vehicles which are (hopefully) more reliable, in the interim. No pleasing some.
RE: X9 | X10 - Acquisition of interdeck coaches from Oxford Bus Company - streetdeckfan - 26 Jul 2020
(26 Jul 2020, 6:51 pm)Dan Given that there's been a breakdown on the X9/X10 every day this week (apart from today when Volvo B9s have been allocated), I thought you'd welcome an allocation of vehicles which are (hopefully) more reliable, in the interim. No pleasing some.
Hopefully with the mechanical upgrades and them running on a less demanding route, the B5s might actually become reliable!
What's the speed limit on the B5s? I assume they'll be able to go faster than the StreetDecks on the motorway, or will they be reduced to 48mph
RE: X9 | X10 - Acquisition of interdeck coaches from Oxford Bus Company - Dan - 26 Jul 2020
(26 Jul 2020, 6:59 pm)streetdeckfan Hopefully with the mechanical upgrades and them running on a less demanding route, the B5s might actually become reliable!
What's the speed limit on the B5s? I assume they'll be able to go faster than the StreetDecks on the motorway, or will they be reduced to 48mph
Well, that's the logic!
They're limited to 95km/h (59mph).
RE: X9 | X10 - Acquisition of interdeck coaches from Oxford Bus Company - scanialover - 26 Jul 2020
Don't know whether I'm not pleased or otherwise with regard to this arrangement. Seems strange that GNE have gone with this move now as opposed to September when the coaches are available. On the flip side of that I don't know just how unreliable the B5's have been these past weeks. Maybe that's the reason?
RE: X9 | X10 - Acquisition of interdeck coaches from Oxford Bus Company - streetdeckfan - 26 Jul 2020
(26 Jul 2020, 7:02 pm)Dan Well, that's the logic!
They're limited to 95km/h (59mph).
So in theory they should be able to do the CLS to Low Fell stretch in 52 seconds less? You're going to have to change the NSA!
RE: X9 | X10 - Acquisition of interdeck coaches from Oxford Bus Company - mb134 - 26 Jul 2020
(26 Jul 2020, 4:20 pm)Dan Semi-related; ahead of the coaches transferring north, X9|X10 branded Volvo B5TLs 6308 - 6314 have now been taken out of service at Riverside, and generic X-lines branded 6334/35 have transferred to Chester-le-Street.
6308 - 6314 have been taken out of service to be repainted and also to allow for some mechanical upgrades to be completed prior to their transfer to Chester-le-Street, ironing out a couple of the recent niggles they've had while operating the X9/X10 services. Taking their place on the X9/X10 services until the coaches transfer north are Volvo B9TLs (6043/44 from Riverside's own fleet allocation, 6048 from Hexham's allocation, 6084-86 from Deptford's allocation and 6099/6100 from Percy Main's allocation).
Go North East: 6085 / NL63YHN by Daniel Graham, on Flickr
Assuming that the ones selected are the most (or some of the most) reliable examples, or best performers? As you've said later on I hope this results in a better service reliability than has been provided by B5s recently.
RE: X9 | X10 - Acquisition of interdeck coaches from Oxford Bus Company - Stanleyone - 26 Jul 2020
(26 Jul 2020, 4:20 pm)Dan Semi-related; ahead of the coaches transferring north, X9|X10 branded Volvo B5TLs 6308 - 6314 have now been taken out of service at Riverside, and generic X-lines branded 6334/35 have transferred to Chester-le-Street.Will this allow 2 more X21 streetdecks to be withdrawn for repainting?
6308 - 6314 have been taken out of service to be repainted and also to allow for some mechanical upgrades to be completed prior to their transfer to Chester-le-Street, ironing out a couple of the recent niggles they've had while operating the X9/X10 services. Taking their place on the X9/X10 services until the coaches transfer north are Volvo B9TLs (6043/44 from Riverside's own fleet allocation, 6048 from Hexham's allocation, 6084-86 from Deptford's allocation and 6099/6100 from Percy Main's allocation).
RE: X9 | X10 - Acquisition of interdeck coaches from Oxford Bus Company - deanmachine - 26 Jul 2020
(26 Jul 2020, 7:10 pm)mb134 Assuming that the ones selected are the most (or some of the most) reliable examples, or best performers? As you've said later on I hope this results in a better service reliability than has been provided by B5s recently.
6085 likes a good overheat, not sure if that’s just not topping up the coolant in the morning though.
RE: X9 | X10 - Acquisition of interdeck coaches from Oxford Bus Company - 6049 - 26 Jul 2020
(26 Jul 2020, 7:20 pm)deanmachine 6085 likes a good overheat, not sure if that’s just not topping up the coolant in the morning though.6099 is quick enough, got to be careful slowing down as the brakes are unexpectedly good
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RE: X9 | X10 - Acquisition of interdeck coaches from Oxford Bus Company - Malarkey - 26 Jul 2020
(26 Jul 2020, 6:19 pm)streetdeckfan I would have thought it would make more sense to do one B5, one StreetDeck and one Streetlite at a time, that way they can all get switched around at the same time. I suppose it depends on how fast they can turn around the repaints.
Does anyone know what the capacity of Saltmeadows is for repaints?
I'm sure it is 1 spray shop so if vehicles are rubbed down and prepared for repaint they could in effect paint 2 buses a day depending on how it takes to repaint a bus of course particularly with them being painted into either a 2 tone livery or in the case of the X-Lines 4 tones.
I'm Dan or Citaro5284 would be able to clarify this though.
RE: X9 | X10 - Acquisition of interdeck coaches from Oxford Bus Company - deanmachine - 26 Jul 2020
(26 Jul 2020, 9:23 pm)6049 6099 is quick enough, got to be careful slowing down as the brakes are unexpectedly good
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6099 and 6100 are my two favourite buses I've driven, 6099 less than 6100 because it's brakes were a little bit more grabby, the brake pedal seems to be mounted differently to the other B9s which was a bit weird, still a good bus though.
RE: X9 | X10 - Acquisition of interdeck coaches from Oxford Bus Company - L469 YVK - 26 Jul 2020
What made GoNE consider the Volvo B5TL back in 2017? I know there wasn't really much suitable alternative to choose from other than the ADL E400MMC or Scania ADL E400MMC.
I do think however that the B5TL's should be fine on the X21 given the scenario that faced 6043-6048. They should've been cascaded down at 3 year old.
I literally don't think any modern standard (XLB too much of a bus) double deck vehicle could cope with the X9 & X10. The OM936 StreetDeck might prove otherwise however but coaches are the best way forward.
RE: X9 | X10 - Acquisition of interdeck coaches from Oxford Bus Company - deanmachine - 26 Jul 2020
(26 Jul 2020, 10:10 pm)L469 YVK What made GoNE consider the Volvo B5TL back in 2017? I know there wasn't really much suitable alternative to choose from other than the ADL E400MMC or Scania ADL E400MMC.
I’d speculate promises from Volvo that the B5TL was a suitable replacement to the B9TL with its twin turbos and fancy tech. Clearly not in the same league when it comes to hauling double deckers at speed. It’s all well and good having the same performance, but useless if it can’t be had reliably, and reliability would be hard to test on a demonstration, you’d have to rely on promises from Volvo.
It’s a shame really, Volvo have effectively lost their hold as being the go to double decker chassis in the UK due to the B5TL being nowhere near as good as it’s predecessors.
RE: X9 | X10 - Acquisition of interdeck coaches from Oxford Bus Company - streetdeckfan - 26 Jul 2020
(26 Jul 2020, 10:15 pm)deanmachine I’d speculate promises from Volvo that the B5TL was a suitable replacement to the B9TL with its twin turbos and fancy tech. Clearly not in the same league when it comes to hauling double deckers at speed. It’s all well and good having the same performance, but useless if it can’t be had reliably, and reliability would be hard to test on a demonstration, you’d have to rely on promises from Volvo.
It’s a shame really, Volvo have effectively lost their hold as being the go to double decker chassis in the UK due to the B5TL being nowhere near as good as it’s predecessors.
I wonder what part of the engine makes them so unreliable.
Clearly it's not a major failure otherwise they'd be off the road for longer, so it must be something small, but that keeps recurring
RE: X9 | X10 - Acquisition of interdeck coaches from Oxford Bus Company - Ambassador - 26 Jul 2020
Just imagine how extra fantastic these coaches are going to seem to passengers after a few months of B9s.
RE: X9 | X10 - Acquisition of interdeck coaches from Oxford Bus Company - deanmachine - 26 Jul 2020
(26 Jul 2020, 10:33 pm)streetdeckfan I wonder what part of the engine makes them so unreliable.
Clearly it's not a major failure otherwise they'd be off the road for longer, so it must be something small, but that keeps recurring
Probably due to the smaller engine, the B9s engine was very under stressed for its application, 260ps from a massive 9.6 litre engine, the same basic engine making 380ps in the B9R coaches just shows how under-stressed it was. A little 5 litre, same size you get in streetlites afterall, doing similar work to a 9 litre+ just gives more potential of going wrong, even if it’s fundamentally a good design, which I’m sure it is being a Volvo.
RE: X9 | X10 - Acquisition of interdeck coaches from Oxford Bus Company - streetdeckfan - 27 Jul 2020
(26 Jul 2020, 10:55 pm)deanmachine Probably due to the smaller engine, the B9s engine was very under stressed for its application, 260ps from a massive 9.6 litre engine, the same basic engine making 380ps in the B9R coaches just shows how under-stressed it was. A little 5 litre, same size you get in streetlites afterall, doing similar work to a 9 litre+ just gives more potential of going wrong, even if it’s fundamentally a good design, which I’m sure it is being a Volvo.
I'm not a mechanic, but If it was down to the engine being over stressed, I'd think it would be more of a catastrophic failure than what actually happens.
To me, if the engine is being over stressed on a motorway journey, that is down to the gearing rather than the engine, once a vehicle is on the go, it takes very little power to keep it moving. It's the constant stop-start that puts the most stress on an engine.
X9 | X10 - Acquisition of interdeck coaches from Oxford Bus Company - Dan - 27 Jul 2020
(26 Jul 2020, 10:55 pm)Ambassador Just imagine how extra fantastic these coaches are going to seem to passengers after a few months of B9s.
You’ll get a job coming out with things like that
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RE: X9 | X10 - Acquisition of interdeck coaches from Oxford Bus Company - L469 YVK - 27 Jul 2020
(27 Jul 2020, 12:35 am)streetdeckfan I'm not a mechanic, but If it was down to the engine being over stressed, I'd think it would be more of a catastrophic failure than what actually happens.On the B5TLs & B9TLs (B9s were 310BHP), it will possibly be down to gear ratios & torque more than likely.
To me, if the engine is being over stressed on a motorway journey, that is down to the gearing rather than the engine, once a vehicle is on the go, it takes very little power to keep it moving. It's the constant stop-start that puts the most stress on an engine.