+- North East Buses (https://northeastbuses.co.uk/forums)
+-- Forum: Local Bus Scene (https://northeastbuses.co.uk/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=1)
+--- Forum: Operations, Management & Infrastructure (https://northeastbuses.co.uk/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=3)
+--- Thread: Pricing (/showthread.php?tid=324)
RE: Pricing - tyresmoke - 03 Nov 2014
While it doesn't make it right, I would be willing to bet there are anomalies like this all over the place.
RE: Pricing - MurdnunoC - 03 Nov 2014
(03 Nov 2014, 2:49 pm)tyresmoke While it doesn't make it right, I would be willing to bet there are anomalies like this all over the place.
Not doubting it for a second.
Indeed, many of GNE's pricing anomalies have been discussed within this thread. Using the Newcastle/Gateshead to Wrekenton examples, it has been suggested that these anomalies exist because of the end destination points. Although I don't necessarily agree with this line of reasoning, I am willing to accept the justification that the X1 falls under a different brand and represents some sort of premium, longer-distance service where fare-stages are more drawn out. However, in my view, if a service falls under the same brand these anomalies shoudn't really exist.
This highlights how passengers may arrive at the conclusion that fares in the region are confusing and complex. After all, as a passenger, you would expect to pay the same fare on the same group of services using the same brand name wouldn't you?
RE: Pricing - Andreos1 - 03 Nov 2014
So once word gets about that one service is cheaper than the other, what's the betting loads decrease on the more expensive service?
I would love to see loads between Wrekenton and Gateshead on the 51/52 56 and x1 (particularly the latter two) - bearing in mind the different prices that exist.
RE: Pricing - Dan - 03 Nov 2014
With reference to the different fares on the 10A/10B and the impact it may have on one particular service, I'd imagine that the fare will be changed promptly (hopefully both to the cheaper fare rather than both to the more expensive fare)... This anomaly is unique to what we have discussed in the past, so I can't imagine it was actually intended...
With reference to the Wrekenton - Newcastle services, whether it's linked to the slightly faster journey, or the fact that service X1 runs to Eldon Square rather than New Bridge Street, it does seem more common (at least in my experience) for service X1 to receive more passengers at Wrekenton.
Would possibly be better to compare the 56 and X1 with the 28 and X25 rather than 51/52; in which case, on the Sunday just gone, I was the only passenger (out of approximately 15 waiting) who chose to use the 28 over the X1, when travelling to Newcastle from Wrekenton. Both arrived into Eldon Square at the same time.
RE: Pricing - Malarkey - 03 Nov 2014
(03 Nov 2014, 5:30 pm)Dan With reference to the different fares on the 10A/10B and the impact it may have on one particular service, I'd imagine that the fare will be changed promptly (hopefully both to the cheaper fare rather than both to the more expensive fare)... This anomaly is unique to what we have discussed in the past, so I can't imagine it was actually intended...
With reference to the Wrekenton - Newcastle services, whether it's linked to the slightly faster journey, or the fact that service X1 runs to Eldon Square rather than New Bridge Street, it does seem more common (at least in my experience) for service X1 to receive more passengers at Wrekenton.
Would possibly be better to compare the 56 and X1 with the 28 and X25 rather than 51/52; in which case, on the Sunday just gone, I was the only passenger (out of approximately 15 waiting) who chose to use the 28 over the X1, when travelling to Newcastle from Wrekenton. Both arrived into Eldon Square at the same time.
I've this issue recently with Fares being more Expensive on one than it is on the other, in my case it's the 2A/2C and 8.
If I get the 8 at Washington Galleries due having to go the Bank for Money, it'll cost me £4.50 for a Day Return, but I decide to get on the 2A/2C then it'll cost me £4.70 for the same ticket, But if I do have Money on me to pay the fare and I get on the 2C at Lambton then again it only cost me £4.50, So I therefore question what the 20p Extra is for.
RE: Pricing - Dan - 03 Nov 2014
(03 Nov 2014, 6:13 pm)NEBCD Malarkey I've this issue recently with Fares being more Expensive on one than it is on the other, in my case it's the 2A/2C and 8.
If I get the 8 at Washington Galleries due having to go the Bank for Money, it'll cost me £4.50 for a Day Return, but I decide to get on the 2A/2C then it'll cost me £4.70 for the same ticket, But if I do have Money on me to pay the fare and I get on the 2C at Lambton then again it only cost me £4.50, So I therefore question what the 20p Extra is for.
The 2A/2C and 8 are different services, using different routes, and the mileage is presumably higher between Washington and Sunderland on the 2A/2C than on the 8? Just a guess - but I think that's more acceptable than the 10A/10B scenario described above...
Not sure if that still applies, what with the different routing and all.
RE: Pricing - Adrian - 03 Nov 2014
I've got the fare table here for the 2A/2C and the 8. Both are £4.50 return between the Galleries and Sunderland. Lambton to Sunderland return is also £4.50 on the 2C. Not sure where the £4.70 fare is coming from, as neither fare tables have any £4.70 return fares?
RE: Pricing - Michael - 03 Nov 2014
Wasn't sure where to post it but....
Oyster-style bus cards to be rolled out from 2015 - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-29871381
Move if in wrong place...
RE: Pricing - tyresmoke - 03 Nov 2014
The different routings between services shouldn't have any bearing on the fares between two set points though? A good example is Stockton-Middlesbrough, on the X1/X66/etc direct services it costs £2.40. Our 17A, which goes via Thornaby and Acklam, is also £2.40 despite taking 3x as long
RE: Pricing - MurdnunoC - 03 Nov 2014
(03 Nov 2014, 8:10 pm)tyresmoke The different routings between services shouldn't have any bearing on the fares between two set points though? A good example is Stockton-Middlesbrough, on the X1/X66/etc direct services it costs £2.40. Our 17A, which goes via Thornaby and Acklam, is also £2.40 despite taking 3x as long
It's nice to see some Arriva fares in a thread dominated by examples of GNE's fares.
Anyway, I'm in full agreement with you. Different routings between two set points shouldn't really have any bearing on fares.
The fact that GNE charge the same fare between Sunderland and Washington, according to Aureolin's faretable, only makes the example of different fares between Newcastle/Gateshead and Wrekenton even more puzzling.
RE: Pricing - Andreos1 - 03 Nov 2014
The FPF were surprised to see the difference in the fare between Houghton and Shiney Row on the 4, compared to the X1.
Different route, similar duration and the 4 crossing a boundary/fare zone into Co Durham - yet cheaper than the x1.
RE: Pricing - MurdnunoC - 03 Nov 2014
(03 Nov 2014, 9:23 pm)Andreos1 The FPF were surprised to see the difference in the fare between Houghton and Shiney Row on the 4, compared to the X1.
Different route, similar duration and the 4 crossing a boundary/fare zone into Co Durham - yet cheaper than the x1.
I would have presumed it would have been the other way round since service X1 traverses a more direct route, hence less mileage, than service 4.
RE: Pricing - Andreos1 - 03 Nov 2014
You would have thought so...
RE: Pricing - Andreos1 - 04 Nov 2014
Canny one today on the GNE fb page.
Someone queried a single to Stanley from Park Lane.
A single on the 8 or 78 is £4.70.
A return on the 8 is £6.80.
On the 78, a return is £5.70.
Any ideas why the two singles are the same, yet returns are different?
Blows the boundaries, zones and whatever other theories mentioned previously out of the water!
RE: Pricing - Dan - 04 Nov 2014
(04 Nov 2014, 5:32 pm)Andreos1 Any ideas why the two singles are the same, yet returns are different?
Blows the boundaries, zones and whatever other theories mentioned previously out of the water!
Quite frankly, nobody on this forum is going to know...
Our best bet would be to ask Customer Services about the company's 'simplified pricing structure' via e-mail, giving examples and suggesting how confusing it could be perceived, in a hope that our comments will be passed on to the Commercial Team for review.
I can foresee this thread being flooded with examples when the prices of single/return/day tickets are published on GNE's website using an online calculator...
RE: Pricing - Andreos1 - 04 Nov 2014
But we can guess, surmise and speculate - until we find out the reason behind the anomalies.
Just like we have all done at times, throughout the forum.
We might get an 'insider' trying to justify the differences or we may get a formal response from GNE, which could be put into this forum.
The social media pages provide more than enough anomalies as it is - without any online fare checking facility.
RE: Pricing - Dan - 04 Nov 2014
(04 Nov 2014, 6:36 pm)Andreos1 But we can guess, surmise and speculate - until we find out the reason behind the anomalies.
Just like we have all done at times, throughout the forum.
We might get an 'insider' trying to justify the differences or we may get a formal response from GNE, which could be put into this forum.
The social media pages provide more than enough anomalies as it is - without any online fare checking facility.
Of the 'insiders' which remain, I highly doubt any of them would justify the choices that the company have made to enthusiasts (especially on what could be considered quite a commercially sensitive matter). I suspect that they're quite limited to what they can say on forums like this as it is - as they're covered by Social Media policies - so I think that'd be asking a bit much of them...
I'm not excusing the pricing anomalies, but it's likely that they have always existed (for all companies - not just GNE). As you say, the Social Media pages provide more than enough anomalies as it is, but a couple of years ago, customers could not have queried fares using this platform and likewise I'd argue that we as enthusiasts wouldn't have discussed the topic in so much detail as a result. This extends - as we have already discussed in other threads - to operational issues. Breakdowns, missing buses, and late running buses, are all more frequently reported than they were in the past. Part of the reason why will be linked to the increasing use of Social Media.
As a general statement: I rarely check the bus operators' Social Media pages in comparison to other members of this forum, but I have seen more customers querying fares for Go North East than the other 'big two', and perhaps this is why this thread is primarily dominated by Go North East pricing anomalies. Having the largest network perhaps accounts for more pricing anomalies too, though I suspect Arriva's fares would be more regularly discussed if it was simply down to this. I honestly do think that if the purpose behind this thread was to uncover the reason behind the anomalies we have discussed, then someone volunteers to e-mail the company in question. We may or may not get justification, but I certainly believe that the Customer Service teams would pass the details onto the relevant department within the company for review...
RE: Pricing - Andreos1 - 04 Nov 2014
Just thought I would start a thread to see what peoples thoughts are about pricing across the region.
With the wide range of tickets, discounts and passes, are they structured fairly? Are they expensive or are they value for money?
That was the reason for starting the thread.
Not sure any of the questions have ever been answered, but many examples of the fares have been given.
RE: Pricing - Dan - 04 Nov 2014
(04 Nov 2014, 7:00 pm)Andreos1 That was the reason for starting the thread.
Not sure any of the questions have ever been answered, but many examples of the fares have been given.
I don't think the original questions have ever really been answered and this thread has more so been a thread where we have all discussed single/return fares deemed to be expensive or anomalies in pricing structures. There have - to my memory - been a couple of 'positive' posts regarding fares, suggesting that something has been really good value for money, but these have been few and far between.
As an A-Level Business Studies student, I have been taught that 'value' depends on the person and their financial circumstances. If I did not possess discount cards to entitle me to cheaper travel on buses, as a student who is not earning an income, I would find adult fares very expensive indeed. However, I'd guess that most members of this forum are actually employed, and that they would deem adult fares better value for money than me, in a lot of cases.
I think that the bus operators in our region all set high prices for their single fares and it has been suggested in the past that this is linked to the reimbursement for Concessionary Travel passes. I would also suggest that single tickets are very irregularly purchased though - not because they're expensive, but because most people who go somewhere tend to return at some point that day. As I said above, 'value' will depend on the person, so it would be difficult to suggest one way or another whether return tickets are value for money, but it's been discussed in the past that day tickets which offer travel between the same destinations aren't a lot more expensive than return tickets. I personally think that Go North East's day and weekly saver tickets - especially Route Savers - are great value for money. Competition doesn't always influence these prices as some routes have (or had - some now do) competition at all yet there are still great deals to be had. A recent example I can think of is the "919 WeeklySaver" (the new GNE service which operates between South Shields, Jarrow and Cobalt Business Park): this was priced at roughly £4 more than the cost of using the Tyne Tunnel tolls alone, before even considering fuel costs.
I think travelling on buses hits the unemployed the hardest - though I seem to recall a fairly recent government scheme being in place to assist those on Job Seekers' Allowance to be entitled to cheaper bus fares providing they're going to/from the Job Centre or to/from an interview? I think I first saw details about it on a Stagecoach bus, so not sure whether it was a universal thing or not, or even if it's still around...
RE: Pricing - Adrian - 04 Nov 2014
See, I think GNE's weekly/monthly tickets are better structured than other operators, but I think all operators have increased too far too fast.
You're right about value Dan, but when fares are rising almost double inflation, the average cost of a weekly shop is rising, fuel bills rising, the value soon becomes lost, as the said person's financial status changes. The only thing that is going down, in real terms, is take home pay. If we look at the Measuring Worth website, between 2003-2013, for example. RPI has increased over the period by 37.94%, and real wages have dropped 3.21%. That's a huge gap, and unless something gives, we're going to have a huge problem on our hands.
Unfortunately Government policy has gone from supporting people back to work, to persecuting people until they're forced to work for no pay. In Tyne and Wear, you could previously get a Network TravelTicket if in receipt of JSA. A lifeline to job seekers you'd argue.