(05 Dec 2016, 6:47 pm)Andreos1 How does that compare with the Metro?

(05 Dec 2016, 6:43 pm)Tom Seems GNE are freezing fares on routes where there are no competition.

Fares between Howdon and Newcastle on the 1/11 haven't gone up at all. Still £1.50/£2.40 in these areas (despite the fare finder showing £2.85 which is not correct at all). Wonder why...?

(05 Dec 2016, 6:53 pm)Tom Metro is £2.60/£3.90 whereas the 1/11 is £2.40/£3.60 so not a massive difference really.

Though for weekly tickets from Howdon/Wallsend it is £15.50 for a week but on the 1/11 from Howdon is is £13.35 or Wallsend (also on the Q3 and valid to Metrocentre) it is £11.65 so quite a bit cheaper for weekly tickets.

(05 Dec 2016, 7:00 pm)Dan Only some adult single/return fares went up - this was standard across the patch:

Singles:

Frozen:-
60p, £1.00, £1.25, £1.50, £2.00, £2.20, £2.40, £2.50, £2.60, £3.00, £3.70, £4.00 and £5.00

Increased by 5p:-
£1.10, £1.20, £1.35, £1.40, £1.60, £1.75, £1.80, £1.95, £2.10, £2.70, £2.80, £3.20, £3.30, £3.50, £3.80 and £3.95

Increased by 10p:-
£4.10, £4.50, £4.60 and £4.80

(05 Dec 2016, 6:53 pm)Tom but on the 1/11 from Howdon is is £13.35 or Wallsend (also on the Q3 and valid to Metrocentre) it is £11.65 so quite a bit cheaper for weekly tickets.

(05 Dec 2016, 7:32 pm)MVK 500R Never heard of the £11.65 ticket or the £13.35 one.


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(05 Dec 2016, 7:08 pm)Tom Ah right thank you, I thought it was all of them that has increased.

(07 Jan 2017, 8:35 am)ifm001 Now I think this price difference is a bit too much

X1 Gateshead to QE Hospital £2.15 single or £4.00 return.

X25 Gateshead to QE Hospital £1.50 single or £2.90 return.

Same operator same express route same limited stop point .

This needs to be investigated by BBC Rip off Britain

(04 Feb 2017, 9:40 pm)Andreos1 I started write this post earlier, but error messages kept popping up.
After a long week at work and a brain turning to mush, I decided to think about the Purple Streetlites and do a little maths to unwind.

My dislike of the fares on the 20 have been well documented both before the latest price increase and since.
However, I thought it was worth doing a little breakdown of the fares, rather than just comment or talk about percentage increases following a few trips on the 20 this week.

Just to put a little background on it, the majority of my trips on the 20 are when I am travelling to and from a railway station (Sunderland or Durham).
As the majority of my trips on rail are longer than a day, it means I buy expensive single tickets.
As an irregular user of public transport (I don't use a bus every day of the week), weekly and monthly tickets aren't usually an attractive offer.

My most regular trip is on the Houghton - Durham section.
A single is £4.20 and a day return £6.00.
According to Bing Maps, the trip on the 20A is 7.9 miles. If we round it up to 8, it gives us a total cost of 0.525p per mile. For a return, 0.375p per mile.

The fares increased (£4.10 single to the current £4.20) since the introduction of the more fuel efficient Streetlites, which receive an enhanced BSOG of 6p per km.
If we convert miles to kilometres, the trip is 12.875km in each direction. That equates to an enhancement of 0.7725p in each direction of my trip.
In pure cash terms, the operator is just under 90p better off per trip than when the previous vehicle allocation was in place.
Obviously this doesn't take in to account any increase or decrease in running costs over the same period.

If BSOG and the enhancement didn't exist, I would hate to think how much the fares would be...

Just to provide some balance to the calculations, I thought it was worth doing some sums for a much longer section of route.
It isn't one I have done since the 20 was extended to Shields, but I understand the need for balance and all that...

The single fare from Houghton to Shields is £4.20. A Day Return is £4.80.
The distance is 12.7 miles (20.439km).
This is 0.33p per mile for a single and 0.18p return.
The BSOG enhancement £1.22 in each direction.

Obviously we don't know the exact reasons the pricing structure is set up the way it is (we could guess), but I thought it was worth sharing.

(05 Feb 2017, 12:10 pm)James101 Your post prompted me to spend 10 mins on GNE's fare finder to try and establish a pattern across the network. I scrolled through the route list randomly selecting a few routes I'd say GNE have a monopoly on - or at least have very little competition. I've worked out the pence per mile based on the fastest driving route between the two points, as the passenger is paying for the A to B journey. The fact the bus travels more miles via a convoluted route is of benefit to GNE, not the passenger.

X30/6 Stanley-Newcastle = £4.90 = 49p per mile. 
X70 Consett-Gateshead = £4.90 = 41p per mile.
4 Galleries-Heworth = £2.85 = 48p per mile.
20 Houghton-Durham = £4.20 = 53p Per mile.
65 Durham-Murton = £4.50 = 45p per mile

I then did the same for routes where there is competition:

306 Newcastle-Whitley Bay = £2.85 = 27p per mile.
20 Sunderland-South Shields = £2.85 = 32p per mile.
X85 Throckley-Newcaslte = £2.15 = 27p per mile.
X9 Middlesbrough-Billingham = £2.60 = 32p per mile.
35 Silksworth-Sunderland = £1.45 = 32p per mile.


It's by no means comprehensive research and there's no comparison to SNE/Arriva/Metro for now. From this small sample, however, there is either an argument to be made for competition working in favour or against the passenger, depending on where you live.

(06 Feb 2017, 12:23 pm)eezypeazy That competition exists on some routes probably has more to do with the fact that lots more people travel on those routes, so that the price per person per mile ought to be able to be lower anyway. Routes without competition most likely means that there's simply not enough passengers around for operators to wish to compete.

(06 Feb 2017, 12:23 pm)eezypeazy Interesting stuff. Two things come immediately to mind...

1. Isn't there a danger in conflating an individual passengers' fare per mile with the vehicle's BSOG rate per mile? That is, the BSOG enhancement of 6p/kilometre (about 10p per mile) ought to be divided by the average number of passengers on the vehicle  to see the difference the BSOG enhancement makes to each person. In other words, the BSOG enhancement per passenger could well be just fractions of a penny.
2. Its very likely that all these factors (such as average fares paid, ENCTS reimbursement, BSOG and BSOG enhancements, changes to fuel efficiency and maintenance costs, depreciation costs, plus any growth/reduction in passenger numbers) have already been taken into account by the Company as part of its case to justify investing in the new vehicles in the first place - which, all in all, must be quite a complex calculation. For example, a LCEB certified Solo is probably almost twice as fuel efficient as a 12 or 14 year old MPD, and ought to have lower maintenance costs, but the MPD will be fully depreciated while the new Solo will attract depreciation costs.

And, of course, not all costs are 'per mile' - staff costs are 'per hour.' And some buses carry more passengers than others - and sometimes a bus carries more people at some times of the day than at others. That competition exists on some routes probably has more to do with the fact that lots more people travel on those routes, so that the price per person per mile ought to be able to be lower anyway. Routes without competition most likely means that there's simply not enough passengers around for operators to wish to compete.

But all in all, I agree - fares could well be higher if the bus fleet was older, less fuel efficient and more difficult to keep on the road!

(08 Feb 2017, 10:33 am)eezypeazy Sorry, Andreos, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make there.

As enthusiasts, we welcome all the improvements in the service that you've listed. As fare payers, we ought to note and rejoice that GNE's fares changes (some went down as well as up recently!) are usually more than 12 months apart (some recently have been changed only after 18 months, and the child fares changes last year were after four and a half years) - the implication being that the Company is doing all it can to limit fares increases (unlike some other companies, and the railways, where annual changes are implemented). Economists teach that changes in prices can cause changes in demand, measured by a thing called 'elasticity', so falling prices might increase demand, and will change the margin earned - which could be to the delight of shareholders.

If GNE can do all that, and invest in the 20, it's beginning to sound like a reasonably well-run outfit...