(02 Jul 2017, 4:25 pm)Jmb134 That fare looks even worse when you consider that, for 80p more, GNE offer students unlimited travel all day across their network. Now, I'm not complaining about that (£3.80 is ridiculously cheap for a region wide day ticket), but it does make you wonder if they have their pricing strategy correct.

(02 Jul 2017, 11:46 am)Andreos1 I wonder if it's an average.

I haven't used my 'beloved' 20 for a while now and since the recent changes to fares, I'm not sure I want to find out how much it has gone up!
I think it was in this thread (it may have been another), where I worked out the percentage increase over the last few years. 

To read on here that it has gone up again, may require me dig out a calculator again!

(02 Jul 2017, 8:11 pm)Andreos1 I haven't worked out the price per mile yet, but the trip to Durham from Houghton is now £4.40.
In 2014, it was £3.95.
In 3 years, the fare on this service has gone up by almost 11 1/2%!


I've had to check my method as I didn't believe the result!

Absolutely staggered.

(04 Feb 2017, 9:40 pm)Andreos1 I started write this post earlier, but error messages kept popping up.
After a long week at work and a brain turning to mush, I decided to think about the Purple Streetlites and do a little maths to unwind.

My dislike of the fares on the 20 have been well documented both before the latest price increase and since.
However, I thought it was worth doing a little breakdown of the fares, rather than just comment or talk about percentage increases following a few trips on the 20 this week.

Just to put a little background on it, the majority of my trips on the 20 are when I am travelling to and from a railway station (Sunderland or Durham).
As the majority of my trips on rail are longer than a day, it means I buy expensive single tickets.
As an irregular user of public transport (I don't use a bus every day of the week), weekly and monthly tickets aren't usually an attractive offer.

My most regular trip is on the Houghton - Durham section.
A single is £4.20 and a day return £6.00.
According to Bing Maps, the trip on the 20A is 7.9 miles. If we round it up to 8, it gives us a total cost of 0.525p per mile. For a return, 0.375p per mile.

The fares increased (£4.10 single to the current £4.20) since the introduction of the more fuel efficient Streetlites, which receive an enhanced BSOG of 6p per km.
If we convert miles to kilometres, the trip is 12.875km in each direction. That equates to an enhancement of 0.7725p in each direction of my trip.
In pure cash terms, the operator is just under 90p better off per trip than when the previous vehicle allocation was in place.
Obviously this doesn't take in to account any increase or decrease in running costs over the same period.

If BSOG and the enhancement didn't exist, I would hate to think how much the fares would be...

Just to provide some balance to the calculations, I thought it was worth doing some sums for a much longer section of route.
It isn't one I have done since the 20 was extended to Shields, but I understand the need for balance and all that...

The single fare from Houghton to Shields is £4.20. A Day Return is £4.80.
The distance is 12.7 miles (20.439km).
This is 0.33p per mile for a single and 0.18p return.
The BSOG enhancement £1.22 in each direction.

Obviously we don't know the exact reasons the pricing structure is set up the way it is (we could guess), but I thought it was worth sharing.

(02 Jul 2017, 8:30 pm)Adrian And inflation over the same period was 3.3%...

(02 Jul 2017, 4:56 pm)Ambassador I'd say judging by loadings they don't. It's more cost effective at work now to take the company car option as opposed to the greener option, even with the upcoming tax changes.

The high pricing puts off potential users who are aghast at the cost of getting to town for a pint or two and turn to taxis or über.


Yet GNEs response is to to waffle on about USB, selected routes only, WiFi, rarely works, student tickets, irrelevant to a commuter and new buses as they sit on an unrefurbished Omnidekka. 

I've lost a lot of respect for how GNE have handled this change. I wish someone had the bollcoks and resources to take them on. They deserve a pasting for their apathetic, customer second, profits first mentality. Disappointed their union is bloody quiet too.

(08 Jul 2017, 9:36 pm)Andreos1 I've had sight of a pretty damning open letter that's been sent to Kevin Carr regarding the latest fare increases.

Will clarify if it can be put on here, before I upload it.

The sad thing is, it's probably not the only letter.

(08 Jul 2017, 10:14 pm)Adrian I'd never knock anyone for putting their concerns in writing, but the sad fact is that it won't make a blind bit of difference, as we both know. The majority of their buses is running with no or very little direct competition, so there is no requirement to keep costs down to the customer.

My main gripe with it is the lack of communication. Something that I wrote to them about last time, and clearly hasn't made a blind bit of difference this time. I see plenty about wedding shows, gigs and what not, but not a bloody thing giving proper information about fares online. The posters on the buses are crap too. I mean why invest in NSA technology, when you're going to be as unfriendly as possible to those with sight loss, when it comes to communicating fares changes. 

At least Arriva tell you to go to a URL to see the full details. https://www.arrivabus.co.uk/north-east/Latest/northeastfares/

(08 Jul 2017, 9:36 pm)Andreos1 I've had sight of a pretty damning open letter that's been sent to Kevin Carr regarding the latest fare increases.

Will clarify if it can be put on here, before I upload it.

The sad thing is, it's probably not the only letter.

(08 Jul 2017, 10:14 pm)Adrian I'd never knock anyone for putting their concerns in writing, but the sad fact is that it won't make a blind bit of difference, as we both know. The majority of their buses is running with no or very little direct competition, so there is no requirement to keep costs down to the customer.

At least Arriva tell you to go to a URL to see the full details. https://www.arrivabus.co.uk/north-east/Latest/northeastfares/

(09 Jul 2017, 10:39 am)Tamesider I was talking to someone (a complete stranger) about competition yesterday evening, after yet another example of Stagecoach Manchester's appalling punctuality on my local route - combined delays of 50 minutes on the last two round trips made; this on a "frequent intervals" service, and only one of the four journeys undertaken in the rush hour. As I mentioned a few days ago, the quality of competition in GM has been totally lamentable since 26/10/86 - virtually no innovation; no new routes; no genuine frequency improvements and fare reductions confined to specific groups of customers. All of which resulted in instability and an even worse image than the bus industry already had (old, smokey buses, passengers thrown off mid route so that bus could turn round and chase competitor going the other way; unfathomable ticketing and of course, reductions in average loadings adding to the argument that buses were the major cause of congestion in the city. However, it now seems a shame there isn't any possibility of competition here, as the chances of a quality operation setting up is absolutely nil. This is where Stagecoach are being clever over franchising. Their deterioration has coincided with the possibility of Franchising being implemented, but they know that the now official policy of Franchsing means that no one is going to set up in competition under a deregulated regime. Equally, knowing that the Regional Mayor's are only in office for three years, they are likely to try and stall of Franchising through the courts.

The question is, is there/has there been any decent quality competition (on commercial services) in the North East, that could counter the Fare rises up there. As an aside, and bearing in mind that single fares usually rise faster than "Rover" tickets, I dug out a Stagecoach DayRider ticket from an old coat recently; it was dated 2012 (when services round here were MUCH better) and cost £3. Today, its £4.30 (an increase of 43.3% in 5 years). This is approx. 3.5 times the rate of Inflation, which TBF is consistent with Fare increases since 1986. I can't find any equivalent figures for fuel costs, but I did find that in real terms the cost of Petrol has increased by just 5% in the last FIFTY years.

(09 Jul 2017, 2:11 pm)Andreos1 It's an oldie, but a goodie.

http://www.thejournal.co.uk/news/north-east-news/arriva-go-north-east-secret-4419286

But to answer your question, not particularly.
There are a few corridors that have competing services, such as the Coast Road (ANE and GNE) and in Sunderland (City Centre to the estates - SNE and GNE). Those routes have attractive ticketing options too.
There is also competition between road and rail between South Shields and Newcastle.
To put it bluntly, competition is very few and far between.

(08 Jul 2017, 10:14 pm)Adrian I mean why invest in NSA technology, when you're going to be as unfriendly as possible to those with sight loss, when it comes to communicating fares changes. 

(02 Jul 2017, 1:26 pm)Charles41 In low fell go ahead have a virtual monopoly. At one time we had direct buses to Darlington. Hartlepool and Stanley. We also had plenty of competition. We had shaws, OK travel, classic and low fell coaches. It currently costs two ten from shipcote to newcastle. As for routes its now a choice between the 21 and the 1.

So much for deregulation giving competition and choice.

Charles

(09 Jul 2017, 3:55 pm)Tamesider I suppose the subtle difference between GM and the North East is that until 2014 there was virtually no competition between the "big 5". The exception being Bolton/Wigan, but apart from the 575 between Horwich and Bolton, this is largely due to the pre-dereg services inherited anyway. When First bought Finglands in 2013/4, the idea of First and Stagecoach going head to head was totally new. As such, its turned into a local version of World War 3, with "collateral" way beyond (nay, solely beyond) the battlefield. 

There has always been competition between subsidised rail and commercial bus on a limited number of markets, but Rail will always be the winner there, but the change in overall circumstances triggered by the First/Stagecoach bus war, has created problems and oppurtunities for the rail industry. It is significant that the recent round of off-peak fare increases excluded journeys that competed with buses, so as to maintain a clear financial advantage for customers able to drive to the Station (or park on a neighbouring residential street). For instance a full fare payer from where I live to the far side of Manchester city centre will pay £3.60 on the train/Metrolink, but £5.80 on the bus/Metrolink. These are Return fares. The gap is narrower at peak times of course, but that hasn't stopped a massive increase in use of my evening peak train, for instance, such that it is ringing alarm bells in TFGM's Rail department. But as their influence is solely strategic, there is nothing they can do about carriage allocation, individual fares and stopping policy of existing lines in the short term

(05 Aug 2017, 7:23 pm)Malarkey Don't expect the NE Smart Zone to be expanded into other areas such as Washington & Gateshead, was informed by Alan at Washington Travel Office the reason this hasn't happened is because Go North East has the monopoly of services, with no competition from the likes of Stagecoach and Arriva in the area, compared to the areas the Smart Zone operates currently, personally think I would rather see the Go-Ahead Group withdraw from area than be continuously robbed for bus fare on a monthly basis as let's face it, it won't be that long before i'll have to pay £2 or more for a single to The Galleries.

(05 Aug 2017, 7:29 pm)Dan If you think travelling by bus is expensive, then perhaps you should weigh up the option of travelling by car (taking into account the cost of car, insurance, wear and tear of things such as tyres, petrol, etc).

(05 Aug 2017, 7:51 pm)James101 I'm renewing my company car next month so I've been looking at car leasing websites a lot this weekend. For cheap motoring, you can lease a Toyota Aygo from £70/month, inclusive of servicing, breakdown cover, tyres etc. Add in, say £100 month for fuel & insurance. It's only about £2/day more expensive than using a GNE 3+ zone month pass.