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+--- Thread: Pricing (/showthread.php?tid=324)
RE: Pricing - LVK 404L - 18 May 2021
(17 May 2021, 11:28 pm)OrangeArrow49 Stagecoach is now £4.70 for Tyne & Wear and £4.30 for Newcastle (including Wallsend and Metrocentre). Travelling across the rest of Tyne & Wear required a Day Rover. Durham and Northumberland requires an Explorer. Stagecoach haven't introduced any new tickets for years, and keep putting their fares up.Depends on where you live really. I'm in GNE red zone and quite close to a border. I can go to Sunderland for cheap but to get to Newcastle it is 2 zones vs Stagecoach £4.70 day rider. So my area SNE os the value for money.
Go North East is £5.30 for the Purple GoZone covering Newcastle, Gateshead, North Tyneside, Cramlington, Ashington etc (with local tickets being even cheaper), or £7 for all GoZones (Tyne & Wear, Durham and Northumberland). 5 to 25 tickets and Flexi 5 tickets on the app offer alternative, cheaper options. Now there is also the £1 evening fare, another new ticket from GNE after the 5 to 25, and then 24 Hour and Flexi 5 tickets were introduced.
I think Stagecoach's fares are extortionate.
Better fares are needed for Durham and Northumberland for Arriva customers, and multi-operator customers (bus companies, Metro, ferry etc.) but GNE offers good value for money across Tyne & Wear, Durham and Northumberland if customers have the option to use only GNE buses, like I do.
RE: Pricing - streetdeckfan - 18 May 2021
(18 May 2021, 7:42 am)ifm001 Depends on where you live really. I'm in GNE red zone and quite close to a border. I can go to Sunderland for cheap but to get to Newcastle it is 2 zones vs Stagecoach £4.70 day rider. So my area SNE os the value for money.
For me, it depends on where I'm wanting to go.
If I'm just going a few stops, Arriva are usually cheaper. For me to get into Bishop it's £1.40 with Arriva and I believe £1.50 with GNE. But if I'm going further afield like Durham, GNE are cheaper because of the 5-25 day ticket only being £4.50.
It's the main reason I still spend a lot of time up in Newcastle, it's actually cheaper for me than going to Darlington, which is half the distance and a third of the time!
It's also cheaper for me to visit a friend in Hexham (37 miles) than it is for me to visit my mother in Crook (7 miles), once again, it only costs me £4.50 to get to Hexham and back, but it'd be £4.90 to Crook with Arriva
RE: Pricing - tcts24 - 18 May 2021
My car has been off the road for the past month (brake failure and mechanic says he can't get the part) and live in a village with 1 bus route - Arriva 24. Being forced to use their pathetic app, I took a glance at Arriva North West ticket prices for comparison and found equivalent North East prices substantially higher!
While I did manage to get about a bit - Whitley Bay, Saltburn, Barnard Castle, Richmond, Loftus.... The big problem I repeatedly stumbled on is that I can only use Arriva's tickets on their services. The travel apps out there are fine for telling me what buses I need for travel to my destination and how long it will take. But not a single one that I'm aware of will tell me what operator runs the journeys. That's fine if I have a concessionary pass ore a bottomless pocket of change. As I had neither, I was limited to Arriva routes.
The alternative is sites like Connect Tees Valley or Durham Interactive map. But they are web sites and a bit fiddly on a phone when desperately trying not to get stuck all night in far flung places. Arriva's app would be fine if it didn't tell me to change buses significantly more times than necessary.
Better competition would be ideal, which as I understand was one of the goals of privatisation but the three major operators generally stick to their own little areas without any comprehensive multi operator ticketing available beyond the Explorer day ticket which would be rather pricey if buying almost daily. Dishing out most of the contracts to Scarlet Band and Gateshead Taxis doesn't to help the situation either.
So after 2 weeks of buses I borrowed my dad's car. I don't have to check, cross reference and check again what buses I can and can't use, I'm not freezing because of either waiting long periods for a connecting bus or all the windows are open with this Coronavirus stuff, nor I'm trying to peer over the top of an ad for drivers which Arriva have stuck to the bottom of a window in every bus (why they can't stick them to the top of the window, still very visible from outside but well away from natural eye shot of passengers trying to look at the passing scenery is beyond me) but I guess that's a different discussion.
Again, the Explorer is brilliant for what it is and I did used to have a bus day out once per week with one. I eventually tired of the constant aguments with Arriva drivers reluctant to accept a Go-Ahead Explorer because they wont scan through thier machines. Go-Ahead drivers (especially Deptford for some reason) didn't like Arriva tickets because they didn't scan through their ticket machines. Stagecoach drivers were generally okay, but the odd one were not happy because it wasn't a Stagecoach ticket. And I never even dared attempt to use one on a Scarlet Band contracted route, which I'm led to believe is possible but not exactly well advertised. Only Metro and Ferry consistantly accepted it without a challenge.
And that's ultimately what generally stops me from being a regular bus user.
RE: Pricing - Ianthegoon - 18 May 2021
(18 May 2021, 9:27 am)tcts24
Again, the Explorer is brilliant for what it is and I did used to have a bus day out once per week with one. I eventually tired of the constant aguments with Arriva drivers reluctant to accept a Go-Ahead Explorer because they wont scan through thier machines. Go-Ahead drivers (especially Deptford for some reason) didn't like Arriva tickets because they didn't scan through their ticket machines. Stagecoach drivers were generally okay, but the odd one were not happy because it wasn't a Stagecoach ticket. And I never even dared attempt to use one on a Scarlet Band contracted route, which I'm led to believe is possible but not exactly well advertised. Only Metro and Ferry consistantly accepted it without a challenge.
And that's ultimately what generally stops me from being a regular bus user.
Surprised at the issues you seem to have had with Explorer acceptance - I've travelled widely across the North-east, invariably using the Explorer as I want to have freedom to use any services of the three main operators, and I don't think there have been any cross-operator issues at all. Sure, the drivers peer fairly closely at it, then moan because the critical information is printed in a different place by their rivals to where their version would have it, but never a problem with validity.
RE: Pricing - OrangeArrow49 - 18 May 2021
(18 May 2021, 7:42 am)ifm001 Depends on where you live really. I'm in GNE red zone and quite close to a border. I can go to Sunderland for cheap but to get to Newcastle it is 2 zones vs Stagecoach £4.70 day rider. So my area SNE os the value for money.
I think Stagecoach is the cheapest wherever they serve if you are only using them. Like in my example, if only travelling as far as Wallsend or Sunderland (£4.30 or £4.70 on Stagecoach, £5.30 on GNE, unless a 5 to 25 or Flexi 5 ticket is used). GNE is always the value for money as they have the biggest network, serving more of the region and offer alternative tickets like 24 Hours and £1 evening fares to offer better evening value unlike Stagecoach who still charge £4.30 for a day ticket at 7pm! and local savers, and 5 to 25 tickets all to save money. Personally I don't like how Stagecoach charge 40p extra for Gateshead High Street, Sunderland, South Shields and Ponteland on a plus ticket, as having two prices often makes customers buy the more expensive one just in case they might want to go somewhere they haven't planned, or don't fully understand the difference, like Wallsend being included in the Newcastle dayrider could be confusing when it's actually in North Tyneside, and yet Cobalt Business Park would require the plus ticket! For me Sunderland requiring all GoZones when all the way to Cramlington, Ashington, Blyth etc in Northumberland is all in the same GoZone as Newcastle/Gateshead/North Tyneside seems ridiculous and bad value.
Stagecoach is expensive for such a comparively small network. You can't go really far and make use of the fare like you can on GNE. Definitely think GNE need to improve ticket prices for short distances, but you're paying for all of the zone and free to explore that zone, which for Purple is good value really unless you only want to go into Newcastle. Gosforth being included on the North Tyne Saver means I can travel within the North Tyne boundary for £4, much cheaper and better value than Stagecoach within Newcastle and North Tyneside.
Happily, I don't use Stagecoach anymore, they pushed away my custom with their high fares, unreliable service and small network. Go North East gained my custom, and have secured it forever, with value for money fares, reliable services and their large network which theh invest heavily in and constantly improve unlike Stagecoach. Yes, I have to walk a bit, which is good exercise anyway, but once I've got a ticket I can go out and explore far and wide.
RE: Pricing - tcts24 - 18 May 2021
(18 May 2021, 10:00 am)Ianthegoon Surprised at the issues you seem to have had with Explorer acceptance - I've travelled widely across the North-east, invariably using the Explorer as I want to have freedom to use any services of the three main operators, and I don't think there have been any cross-operator issues at all. Sure, the drivers peer fairly closely at it, then moan because the critical information is printed in a different place by their rivals to where their version would have it, but never a problem with validity.
After Arriva got the new machines it escalated to every single week I'd have an argument with at least one driver. I usually tried to alternate which of the three companies I bought the ticket from to vary the arguments a bit. Maybe your just luckier than I am, or maybe my face invites confruntation. Either way, I stopped buying the ticket shortly after the Arriva machine upgrade about 2 years ago and subsequently stopped using buses unless I absolutely have to because of that and the other reasons listed above. From my experience of buses they are far from being a customer friendly environment and have steadily worsened in the nearly 40 years I've been using them. Forgot to mention how uncomfortable the seating is these days compared to the bench seats of my youth. I've made a couple of trips to Torquay and back in the car, if you don't stop (which unless I have passengers, I don't) it's a six hour trip one way. I get out of the car at the other end and I'm absolutely fine. half a hour of Arriva's rock hard "Saphire" seats and my back and arse are killing me.
Ulitmately, if I stick to one operator, which in my case would have to be Arriva. The bus is cheaper once you factor in tax, insurance, maintenance and diesel. But my car runs at the times convenient to me, it's warm, comfortable, I can see through all the windows and I don't have to go through every housing estate when I'm busting for a pee.
Maybe if I lived in central Newcastle, I'd probably consider giving up the car. The ticketing options are pretty good provided you don't want to go too far away from T&W, better competition and generally decent level of service. Even with the higher cost, the car was more convenient and less stressful when I lived in Hartlepool and that's definitely the case since I moved to Ludworth last year.
RE: Pricing - MetrolineGA1511 - 23 May 2021
(18 May 2021, 8:58 am)streetdeckfan For me, it depends on where I'm wanting to go.In 2015 a Stagecoach driver in Sunderland saw my Explorer purchased on an Arriva bus and immediately said my ticket was not valid. I mentioned it was an Explorer then he was ok.
If I'm just going a few stops, Arriva are usually cheaper. For me to get into Bishop it's £1.40 with Arriva and I believe £1.50 with GNE. But if I'm going further afield like Durham, GNE are cheaper because of the 5-25 day ticket only being £4.50.
It's the main reason I still spend a lot of time up in Newcastle, it's actually cheaper for me than going to Darlington, which is half the distance and a third of the time!
It's also cheaper for me to visit a friend in Hexham (37 miles) than it is for me to visit my mother in Crook (7 miles), once again, it only costs me £4.50 to get to Hexham and back, but it'd be £4.90 to Crook with Arriva
In Leeds just over a year ago I purchased a West Yorkshire Bus Daysaver - successor to MetroDay - valid on all companies' buses. I started my day on a Transdev Keighley bus but all other companies' scanners declined it. The drivers looked at it and were fine about it. It just means their scanners are not fully accurately programmed as yet.
RE: Pricing - idiot - 23 May 2021
There is one stagecoach driver in particular who isn't very nice imo. I once had a Go North East issued day rover and he immediately said its not valid where u going? I simply said yes it is and he said no it isn't. I then stated it was a day rover. No apology but let me on.
A few year before that, the same said driver took my bus pass (teen travel at the time) because my bank card was also in there. It was indented off it and give it a good examination. He was seemed disappointed it was a genuine pass!
RE: Pricing - Micheal Aaron - 23 May 2021
(23 May 2021, 4:01 pm)idiot There is one stagecoach driver in particular who isn't very nice imo. I once had a Go North East issued day rover and he immediately said its not valid where u going? I simply said yes it is and he said no it isn't. I then stated it was a day rover. No apology but let me on.Aha I'm gonna admit this. I've had that on tons of drivers. Especially when I used to get the 53 to Palmersvill then the metro to town then the 25 to Eighton Banks. The 25 driver would always say that I couldn't get on.
Another case being using a day rover on the 308 to Whitly Bay and then the 42 from Benton Asda to Wallsend. Yea I've had a few times the driver have said its not valid. All because of the "who issued" the ticket
Pricing - tyresmoke - 26 May 2021
(23 May 2021, 7:31 pm)Micheal Aaron Aha I'm gonna admit this. I've had that on tons of drivers. Especially when I used to get the 53 to Palmersvill then the metro to town then the 25 to Eighton Banks. The 25 driver would always say that I couldn't get on.
Another case being using a day rover on the 308 to Whitly Bay and then the 42 from Benton Asda to Wallsend. Yea I've had a few times the driver have said its not valid. All because of the "who issued" the ticket
All of this would be easily solved by having an ‘Explorer’ logo (or whatever other ticket it is) rather than the operator logo at the top of such tickets. That would cut out 90% of these misunderstandings with drivers.
As a driver myself half of the problem is simply the amount of tickets they have to sell and accept, all with differing rules over times, zones and whatever else you can find to add in!
When I was at Arriva Stockton for example I worked out we sold 27 different weekly tickets on our network. It’s simply impossible to remember all of the different rules for each one!
A simple conversation with most will point out that it’s not an operator specific ticket though. Even better would be to remove the paper ticket completely which is what they have done in West Yorkshire where you can get a day ticket on smartcard which instantly scans on all operators machines with no problem (so far!).
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RE: Pricing - Micheal Aaron - 26 May 2021
Yea. I've had to show them it's a day rover by another company. Gne have tried to scan it. Arriva have done the same. Pity there isn't a way for the explorer and day rover tickets to scan on other buses
RE: Pricing - Adrian - 26 May 2021
(26 May 2021, 11:40 am)tyresmoke All of this would be easily solved by having an ‘Explorer’ logo (or whatever other ticket it is) rather than the operator logo at the top of such tickets. That would cut out 90% of these misunderstandings with drivers.
As a driver myself half of the problem is simply the amount of tickets they have to sell and accept, all with differing rules over times, zones and whatever else you can find to add in!
When I was at Arriva Stockton for example I worked out we sold 27 different weekly tickets on our network. It’s simply impossible to remember all of the different rules for each one!
A simple conversation with most will point out that it’s not an operator specific ticket though. Even better would be to remove the paper ticket completely which is what they have done in West Yorkshire where you can get a day ticket on smartcard which instantly scans on all operators machines with no problem (so far!).
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The logo is a good idea, but also the ability to scan QR codes on other operators' ticket machines.
I generally use mobile ticketing nowadays, because the GNE app is spot on for it. I've never had any real problems with Explorers or Day Rovers purchased on the app, other than having to wait for Metro staff to finish their conversation before opening the barriers. You get the odd bus driver who asks you to scan it, but never really a problem if you tell them its an explorer on a GNE app.
RE: Pricing - Charles41 - 26 May 2021
I'm showing my age here but the old scratch card Explorer tickets were clearly recognisable. I used to get one most Saturdays and go all over the North East when I was in my teens. Never had any problems at all.
Charles
RE: Pricing - Storx - 26 May 2021
(26 May 2021, 11:40 am)tyresmoke All of this would be easily solved by having an ‘Explorer’ logo (or whatever other ticket it is) rather than the operator logo at the top of such tickets. That would cut out 90% of these misunderstandings with drivers.
As a driver myself half of the problem is simply the amount of tickets they have to sell and accept, all with differing rules over times, zones and whatever else you can find to add in!
When I was at Arriva Stockton for example I worked out we sold 27 different weekly tickets on our network. It’s simply impossible to remember all of the different rules for each one!
A simple conversation with most will point out that it’s not an operator specific ticket though. Even better would be to remove the paper ticket completely which is what they have done in West Yorkshire where you can get a day ticket on smartcard which instantly scans on all operators machines with no problem (so far!).
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Must admit I'm dragging this a bit off topic but it's got to be more than that surely?
Tyne and Wear
T&W + Ashington
T&W + Tyne Valley
T&W + Morpeth
T&W + Northumberland
T&W + Blyth
Network One Z1
Network One Z1+2
Network One Z2
Network One Z2+3
Network One Z3
Network One Z3+4
Network One Z3+5
Network One All Zones
There's like 14 on the X12 in Tyne and Wear alone, must admit your lot don't have a clue about the top lot and I don't think whoever sets the ticket machines did either as it used to underpriced by 10p. Don't blame you's not having a clue though especially when they're displayed as YP TW + BH or used to be anyway.
Not surprised at drivers struggling with tickets, it's a godsend having the QR codes tbh rather than trying to explain what that means.
RE: Pricing - XUP254F - 28 May 2021
(26 May 2021, 11:54 am)Micheal Aaron Yea. I've had to show them it's a day rover by another company. Gne have tried to scan it. Arriva have done the same. Pity there isn't a way for the explorer and day rover tickets to scan on other busesThe technology must allow it as have come across it in Leicester with the Flexi ticket. It scans correctly across First, Arriva & Centrebus. All 3 companies use Ticketer machines. However this is the only place I have found it to exist.
RE: Pricing - Ianthegoon - 28 May 2021
(28 May 2021, 8:48 am)XUP254F The technology must allow it as have come across it in Leicester with the Flexi ticket. It scans correctly across First, Arriva & Centrebus. All 3 companies use Ticketer machines. However this is the only place I have found it to exist.
The technology will be able to "read" the 2-D matrix printed on the ticket. However, it will not have been been provided with an interpretation of that matrix that it can recognise as a ticket - what is needed is for each company's machines to be provided with the coding for a valid multi-operator ticket from the other companies. I'm sure it can't be difficult; however, it would require co-operation ......
RE: Pricing - streetdeckfan - 28 May 2021
(28 May 2021, 9:31 am)Ianthegoon The technology will be able to "read" the 2-D matrix printed on the ticket. However, it will not have been been provided with an interpretation of that matrix that it can recognise as a ticket - what is needed is for each company's machines to be provided with the coding for a valid multi-operator ticket from the other companies. I'm sure it can't be difficult; however, it would require co-operation ......
With the amount of bragging MG does about how great NEBus is, and how much all the operators work together, I'm surprised something like that isn't already in place!
RE: Pricing - XUP254F - 28 May 2021
(28 May 2021, 9:31 am)Ianthegoon The technology will be able to "read" the 2-D matrix printed on the ticket. However, it will not have been been provided with an interpretation of that matrix that it can recognise as a ticket - what is needed is for each company's machines to be provided with the coding for a valid multi-operator ticket from the other companies. I'm sure it can't be difficult; however, it would require co-operation ......Yes, it requires cooperation.
I was surprised in Leicester to get a the positive bleep when asked to scan the ticket on a different operator to that purchased. I had just shown the driver the ticket on the assumption it would get the negative sound.
Certainly other places like the North East as stated, Manchester System 1, Norwich Fusion, Bournemouth Getting About, W Yorks Metro tickets all give the negative sound when scanned on a different operator where both use Ticketer machines.
RE: Pricing - Adrian - 28 May 2021
NESTi was supposed to create the smart-ticketing infrastructure to allow this. The site appears to be offline at the moment though - https://www.nesti.org.uk/
RE: Pricing - BusLoverMum - 09 Jun 2021
Just followed a link from an arriva email about their current tickets. The pricing is all over the place. I scanned the family ticket prices. You would think the region wide family ticket would be the most expensive at £14 but there are several that cost more, for example the Durham District family ticket at £15.50
https://www.arrivabus.co.uk/floating-pages/were-here-for-when-you-venture-out-again?utm_source=email&utm_medium=challenger_orange_cta&utm_campaign=WHFY
I do like the idea of the duo tickets, mind.