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BJ10VUS



850
24 Jun 2014, 6:06 pm #21
(24 Jun 2014, 5:58 pm)NEBCD Malarkey Yeah but Stagecoach have ordered Volvo B5LH's with the New E400 Bodywork in a Partnership between Volvo and Alexander Dennis, So surely that Partnership between Alexander and Volvo would allow for the B8TL to happen, and I would think Wrightbus would also have some input on this Partnership also.

Yeah, but then you're just going back in time? They've made the buses lighter to improve fuel economy. If you're putting a bigger engine in, you're obviously going to add significant weight.
BJ10VUS
24 Jun 2014, 6:06 pm #21

(24 Jun 2014, 5:58 pm)NEBCD Malarkey Yeah but Stagecoach have ordered Volvo B5LH's with the New E400 Bodywork in a Partnership between Volvo and Alexander Dennis, So surely that Partnership between Alexander and Volvo would allow for the B8TL to happen, and I would think Wrightbus would also have some input on this Partnership also.

Yeah, but then you're just going back in time? They've made the buses lighter to improve fuel economy. If you're putting a bigger engine in, you're obviously going to add significant weight.

Adrian



9,566
24 Jun 2014, 6:15 pm #22
Whether I agree or not, I honestly think that if there was a huge demand for larger engines at euro 6 standard, then we'd be seeing one in production as we speak. From a manufacturing point of view it makes no sense to not enter a market where there's both a gap and demand. There not being one (that we know of) in production tells me that operators aren't demanding the same as enthusiasts.

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Adrian
24 Jun 2014, 6:15 pm #22

Whether I agree or not, I honestly think that if there was a huge demand for larger engines at euro 6 standard, then we'd be seeing one in production as we speak. From a manufacturing point of view it makes no sense to not enter a market where there's both a gap and demand. There not being one (that we know of) in production tells me that operators aren't demanding the same as enthusiasts.


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L469 YVK



3,544
24 Jun 2014, 6:21 pm #23
But GNE when replacing the B9TL and B5LH in about 7-8 years time could do the following:

- ADL Integral for Cobalt Clipper (15+2), Fab 56 (15+2), Angel (18+2) and if it goes down the same route and the Cobalts and Fab 56 went through with double deck upgrades, the Crusader (14+2).

- Volvo B8TL option for the TEN (13+2), Red Arrows (14+2) and TTX (7+1).

In total, the ADL Integral option would generate 81 orders including spares and the B8TL option would generate 42 orders including spares in total creating 123 orders to ADL from GNE alone.
Edited 24 Jun 2014, 6:24 pm by L469 YVK.
L469 YVK
24 Jun 2014, 6:21 pm #23

But GNE when replacing the B9TL and B5LH in about 7-8 years time could do the following:

- ADL Integral for Cobalt Clipper (15+2), Fab 56 (15+2), Angel (18+2) and if it goes down the same route and the Cobalts and Fab 56 went through with double deck upgrades, the Crusader (14+2).

- Volvo B8TL option for the TEN (13+2), Red Arrows (14+2) and TTX (7+1).

In total, the ADL Integral option would generate 81 orders including spares and the B8TL option would generate 42 orders including spares in total creating 123 orders to ADL from GNE alone.

L469 YVK



3,544
24 Jun 2014, 6:23 pm #24
Now I do have faith in the Cummins unit if well built and looked after for TEN and Red Arrows but including them in the B8TL order would help with production of the vehicle.
L469 YVK
24 Jun 2014, 6:23 pm #24

Now I do have faith in the Cummins unit if well built and looked after for TEN and Red Arrows but including them in the B8TL order would help with production of the vehicle.

Andreos1



14,155
24 Jun 2014, 6:26 pm #25
(24 Jun 2014, 6:15 pm)aureolin Whether I agree or not, I honestly think that if there was a huge demand for larger engines at euro 6 standard, then we'd be seeing one in production as we speak. From a manufacturing point of view it makes no sense to not enter a market where there's both a gap and demand. There not being one (that we know of) in production tells me that operators aren't demanding the same as enthusiasts.

I wonder if the manufacturers are trying to meet the financial requirements of the operator - whilst being unable to meet the performance needs?

Technology will possibly find a middle ground...

According to reports, the b5 has struggled to keep to timetable in both Edinburgh and on Tyneside - however affordable it may be.

'Illegitimis non carborundum'
Andreos1
24 Jun 2014, 6:26 pm #25

(24 Jun 2014, 6:15 pm)aureolin Whether I agree or not, I honestly think that if there was a huge demand for larger engines at euro 6 standard, then we'd be seeing one in production as we speak. From a manufacturing point of view it makes no sense to not enter a market where there's both a gap and demand. There not being one (that we know of) in production tells me that operators aren't demanding the same as enthusiasts.

I wonder if the manufacturers are trying to meet the financial requirements of the operator - whilst being unable to meet the performance needs?

Technology will possibly find a middle ground...

According to reports, the b5 has struggled to keep to timetable in both Edinburgh and on Tyneside - however affordable it may be.


'Illegitimis non carborundum'

Adrian



9,566
24 Jun 2014, 6:34 pm #26
(24 Jun 2014, 6:26 pm)Andreos Constantopolous I wonder if the manufacturers are trying to meet the financial requirements of the operator - whilst being unable to meet the performance needs?

Technology will possibly find a middle ground...

According to reports, the b5 has struggled to keep to timetable in both Edinburgh and on Tyneside - however affordable it may be.

Scania do both 13.0 six cylinder and 16.0 v8 truck engines capable of 250-730bhp whilst still meeting Euro 6 emission standards, so the technology is at least there.

I really don't know about the financials. I think it makes less financial sense to rapidly increase the rate of depreciation of your assets, as your not necessarily getting value of money from them. putting them on unsuitable routes does just that. you wouldn't think the first lot of Gemini's are only a year older than the ex red arrows Citaros...

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Adrian
24 Jun 2014, 6:34 pm #26

(24 Jun 2014, 6:26 pm)Andreos Constantopolous I wonder if the manufacturers are trying to meet the financial requirements of the operator - whilst being unable to meet the performance needs?

Technology will possibly find a middle ground...

According to reports, the b5 has struggled to keep to timetable in both Edinburgh and on Tyneside - however affordable it may be.

Scania do both 13.0 six cylinder and 16.0 v8 truck engines capable of 250-730bhp whilst still meeting Euro 6 emission standards, so the technology is at least there.

I really don't know about the financials. I think it makes less financial sense to rapidly increase the rate of depreciation of your assets, as your not necessarily getting value of money from them. putting them on unsuitable routes does just that. you wouldn't think the first lot of Gemini's are only a year older than the ex red arrows Citaros...


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Adrian



9,566
24 Jun 2014, 6:35 pm #27
(24 Jun 2014, 6:21 pm)DaveyBowyer But GNE when replacing the B9TL and B5LH in about 7-8 years time could do the following:

- ADL Integral for Cobalt Clipper (15+2), Fab 56 (15+2), Angel (18+2) and if it goes down the same route and the Cobalts and Fab 56 went through with double deck upgrades, the Crusader (14+2).

- Volvo B8TL option for the TEN (13+2), Red Arrows (14+2) and TTX (7+1).

In total, the ADL Integral option would generate 81 orders including spares and the B8TL option would generate 42 orders including spares in total creating 123 orders to ADL from GNE alone.
You can't predict what technology will be there next week nevermind in 7-8 years time.

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Adrian
24 Jun 2014, 6:35 pm #27

(24 Jun 2014, 6:21 pm)DaveyBowyer But GNE when replacing the B9TL and B5LH in about 7-8 years time could do the following:

- ADL Integral for Cobalt Clipper (15+2), Fab 56 (15+2), Angel (18+2) and if it goes down the same route and the Cobalts and Fab 56 went through with double deck upgrades, the Crusader (14+2).

- Volvo B8TL option for the TEN (13+2), Red Arrows (14+2) and TTX (7+1).

In total, the ADL Integral option would generate 81 orders including spares and the B8TL option would generate 42 orders including spares in total creating 123 orders to ADL from GNE alone.
You can't predict what technology will be there next week nevermind in 7-8 years time.


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Andreos1



14,155
24 Jun 2014, 6:46 pm #28
(24 Jun 2014, 6:34 pm)aureolin Scania do both 13.0 six cylinder and 16.0 v8 truck engines capable of 250-730bhp whilst still meeting Euro 6 emission standards, so the technology is at least there.

I really don't know about the financials. I think it makes less financial sense to rapidly increase the rate of depreciation of your assets, as your not necessarily getting value of money from them. putting them on unsuitable routes does just that. you wouldn't think the first lot of Gemini's are only a year older than the ex red arrows Citaros...

Except a truck engine power to weight ratio is totally different to a bus.

You stick a big powerful lump in the front of a tractor unit and don't need to take into account low floors etc. Some even have the 'nose' like a RM or similar to the ones you see in the movies.
It is essentially designed to haul the trailer.

Scania or whoever else, need to reduce those engines in size, whilst squeezing out fuel costs and maintaining performance.

As for the next point, I agree.
Not sure who will buy a bus with a knackered, worn out engine.
I imagine the resell value will have been factored into the initial outlay - whether those costs were predicted to be more than they possibly could be, is another thing.
Edited 24 Jun 2014, 6:47 pm by Andreos1.

'Illegitimis non carborundum'
Andreos1
24 Jun 2014, 6:46 pm #28

(24 Jun 2014, 6:34 pm)aureolin Scania do both 13.0 six cylinder and 16.0 v8 truck engines capable of 250-730bhp whilst still meeting Euro 6 emission standards, so the technology is at least there.

I really don't know about the financials. I think it makes less financial sense to rapidly increase the rate of depreciation of your assets, as your not necessarily getting value of money from them. putting them on unsuitable routes does just that. you wouldn't think the first lot of Gemini's are only a year older than the ex red arrows Citaros...

Except a truck engine power to weight ratio is totally different to a bus.

You stick a big powerful lump in the front of a tractor unit and don't need to take into account low floors etc. Some even have the 'nose' like a RM or similar to the ones you see in the movies.
It is essentially designed to haul the trailer.

Scania or whoever else, need to reduce those engines in size, whilst squeezing out fuel costs and maintaining performance.

As for the next point, I agree.
Not sure who will buy a bus with a knackered, worn out engine.
I imagine the resell value will have been factored into the initial outlay - whether those costs were predicted to be more than they possibly could be, is another thing.


'Illegitimis non carborundum'

Adrian



9,566
24 Jun 2014, 6:50 pm #29
(24 Jun 2014, 6:46 pm)Andreos Constantopolous Except a truck engine power to weight ratio is totally different to a bus.

You stick a big powerful lump in the front of a tractor unit and don't need to take into account low floors etc. Some even have the 'nose' like a RM or similar to the ones you see in the movies.
It is essentially designed to haul the trailer.

Scania or whoever else, need to reduce those engines in size, whilst squeezing out fuel costs and maintaining performance.

As for the next point, I agree.
Not sure who will buy a bus with a knackered, worn out engine.
I imagine the resell value will have been factored into the initial outlay - whether those costs were predicted to be more than they possibly could be, is another thing.
the point was more that engines of that size and power are being produced to euro 6 emission standards. it's a start. Smile

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Adrian
24 Jun 2014, 6:50 pm #29

(24 Jun 2014, 6:46 pm)Andreos Constantopolous Except a truck engine power to weight ratio is totally different to a bus.

You stick a big powerful lump in the front of a tractor unit and don't need to take into account low floors etc. Some even have the 'nose' like a RM or similar to the ones you see in the movies.
It is essentially designed to haul the trailer.

Scania or whoever else, need to reduce those engines in size, whilst squeezing out fuel costs and maintaining performance.

As for the next point, I agree.
Not sure who will buy a bus with a knackered, worn out engine.
I imagine the resell value will have been factored into the initial outlay - whether those costs were predicted to be more than they possibly could be, is another thing.
the point was more that engines of that size and power are being produced to euro 6 emission standards. it's a start. Smile


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Andreos1



14,155
24 Jun 2014, 6:53 pm #30
(24 Jun 2014, 6:50 pm)aureolin the point was more that engines of that size and power are being produced to euro 6 emission standards. it's a start. Smile

Aye, Technology will possibly find a middle ground... Big Grin

'Illegitimis non carborundum'
Andreos1
24 Jun 2014, 6:53 pm #30

(24 Jun 2014, 6:50 pm)aureolin the point was more that engines of that size and power are being produced to euro 6 emission standards. it's a start. Smile

Aye, Technology will possibly find a middle ground... Big Grin


'Illegitimis non carborundum'

Malarkey



6,060
14 Oct 2014, 10:55 pm #31
Errrrmmm haven't Optare already done this Three times in the form of the Tempo/Versa and MetroCity, or am I completely wrong.
http://www.route-one.net/vehicles/optare...trodecker/
Edited 14 Oct 2014, 10:56 pm by Malarkey.
Malarkey
14 Oct 2014, 10:55 pm #31

Errrrmmm haven't Optare already done this Three times in the form of the Tempo/Versa and MetroCity, or am I completely wrong.
http://www.route-one.net/vehicles/optare...trodecker/

S813 FVK



6,030
15 Oct 2014, 3:39 pm #32
(14 Oct 2014, 10:55 pm)NEBCD Malarkey Errrrmmm haven't Optare already done this Three times in the form of the Tempo/Versa and MetroCity, or am I completely wrong.
http://www.route-one.net/vehicles/optare...trodecker/

I always thought the MetroDecker was the double deck version of the MetroCity? Judging by this article my thoughts are wrong. 
Edited 15 Oct 2014, 3:40 pm by S813 FVK.
S813 FVK
15 Oct 2014, 3:39 pm #32

(14 Oct 2014, 10:55 pm)NEBCD Malarkey Errrrmmm haven't Optare already done this Three times in the form of the Tempo/Versa and MetroCity, or am I completely wrong.
http://www.route-one.net/vehicles/optare...trodecker/

I always thought the MetroDecker was the double deck version of the MetroCity? Judging by this article my thoughts are wrong. 

Andreos1



14,155
15 Oct 2014, 3:47 pm #33
http://www.route-one.net/vehicles/test-d...trodecker/

There is a review of the Metrodecker elsewhere on the site.

It compared favourably to other deckers on the market, but the author didn't seem too keen on its rivals - with a comment which I thought was quite negative.
It will be interesting to see how they last, being the lightweight vehicles that they are.

'Illegitimis non carborundum'
Andreos1
15 Oct 2014, 3:47 pm #33

http://www.route-one.net/vehicles/test-d...trodecker/

There is a review of the Metrodecker elsewhere on the site.

It compared favourably to other deckers on the market, but the author didn't seem too keen on its rivals - with a comment which I thought was quite negative.
It will be interesting to see how they last, being the lightweight vehicles that they are.


'Illegitimis non carborundum'

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