Pricing
Pricing
(19 Feb 2020, 10:27 pm)Adrian Stagecoach's operation in the North East is very much no-frills. They have a national model and they continue to make square pegs fit into round holes, wherever they look to operate. There's no attempt to even try and encourage people out of their car, unlike GNE for example, who have continued to innovate over a number of years and try new things. The new buses and spec on the X30, in my opinion, being a really good example.
(19 Feb 2020, 10:27 pm)Adrian Stagecoach's operation in the North East is very much no-frills. They have a national model and they continue to make square pegs fit into round holes, wherever they look to operate. There's no attempt to even try and encourage people out of their car, unlike GNE for example, who have continued to innovate over a number of years and try new things. The new buses and spec on the X30, in my opinion, being a really good example.
(20 Feb 2020, 12:54 pm)stagecoachbusdepot Not sure that's a fair statement. If the offer of new buses on the X30 is a really good example from GNE, how are the similarly spec'd similarly new buses Stagecoach have just bought for the 39 & 40 demonstrating no attempt to even try?
(20 Feb 2020, 12:54 pm)stagecoachbusdepot Not sure that's a fair statement. If the offer of new buses on the X30 is a really good example from GNE, how are the similarly spec'd similarly new buses Stagecoach have just bought for the 39 & 40 demonstrating no attempt to even try?
(20 Feb 2020, 1:00 pm)Dan Not sure it is unfair either. Perception of marketing perhaps?
Stagecoach have done very little to promote these features and look very “no frills” compared to Go North East’s similar buses.
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(20 Feb 2020, 1:00 pm)Dan Not sure it is unfair either. Perception of marketing perhaps?
Stagecoach have done very little to promote these features and look very “no frills” compared to Go North East’s similar buses.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
(20 Feb 2020, 3:41 pm)stagecoachbusdepot There's no doubt the Stagecoach route branding is incredibly dull though I believe it was stated that this was due to the impending launch of the (insipid) new livery.
That aside, the features are advertised on the sides and rear of the buses, and on board leaflets. I guess whether one livery or brand looks better than another is always highly subjective. There was also a central Newcastle launch, which arguably did more to promote awareness in terms of passing footfall on Northumberland Street, than the X30 launch would have enjoyed at Tanfield Railway.
(20 Feb 2020, 3:41 pm)stagecoachbusdepot There's no doubt the Stagecoach route branding is incredibly dull though I believe it was stated that this was due to the impending launch of the (insipid) new livery.
That aside, the features are advertised on the sides and rear of the buses, and on board leaflets. I guess whether one livery or brand looks better than another is always highly subjective. There was also a central Newcastle launch, which arguably did more to promote awareness in terms of passing footfall on Northumberland Street, than the X30 launch would have enjoyed at Tanfield Railway.
(19 Feb 2020, 10:27 pm)Adrian As others have said, the majority of customers won't have a clue what Euro 6 is or means. I'd be surprised if the majority are interested in operational matters either.
Interested re: the comment on paying staff in line with inflation. Are you saying they're consistent at making pay offers either above or inline with inflation?
Spot on. There's a lot of talk from operators at the moment about congestion and making buses (and public transport in general) more attractive to try and combat it, but I'm not sure what they hope to achieve by further pricing people away from it.
Stagecoach's operation in the North East is very much no-frills. They have a national model and they continue to make square pegs fit into round holes, wherever they look to operate. There's no attempt to even try and encourage people out of their car, unlike GNE for example, who have continued to innovate over a number of years and try new things. The new buses and spec on the X30, in my opinion, being a really good example.
Its going to take more than just the local authority and Government to help combat congestion. The real challenge starts at the operators doors.
(19 Feb 2020, 10:27 pm)Adrian As others have said, the majority of customers won't have a clue what Euro 6 is or means. I'd be surprised if the majority are interested in operational matters either.
Interested re: the comment on paying staff in line with inflation. Are you saying they're consistent at making pay offers either above or inline with inflation?
Spot on. There's a lot of talk from operators at the moment about congestion and making buses (and public transport in general) more attractive to try and combat it, but I'm not sure what they hope to achieve by further pricing people away from it.
Stagecoach's operation in the North East is very much no-frills. They have a national model and they continue to make square pegs fit into round holes, wherever they look to operate. There's no attempt to even try and encourage people out of their car, unlike GNE for example, who have continued to innovate over a number of years and try new things. The new buses and spec on the X30, in my opinion, being a really good example.
Its going to take more than just the local authority and Government to help combat congestion. The real challenge starts at the operators doors.
(21 Feb 2020, 12:56 pm)Andreos1 I don't think the spec currently being promoted on the X30 will be able to sustain itself as anything different in the not too distant future.
I genuinely think it (or at least the majority of it) will become the norm.
It's gonna be an interesting time for commercial and marketing depts as they come up with new ways to attract passengers.
I think we are seeing the slow decline of the route branding fad, data deals are getting better and battery life is lasting longer. Will there be any need for operators to spec these elements?
I am glad there was a re-jig of the GNE zoning structure.
I'm glad there 24 hour ticket was introduced.
Too little, too late? It's nearly the end of Feb, I've not used a UK bus since the second week in December and I'm an 'enthusiast'.
What about 'ordinary' punters?
(21 Feb 2020, 12:56 pm)Andreos1 I don't think the spec currently being promoted on the X30 will be able to sustain itself as anything different in the not too distant future.
I genuinely think it (or at least the majority of it) will become the norm.
It's gonna be an interesting time for commercial and marketing depts as they come up with new ways to attract passengers.
I think we are seeing the slow decline of the route branding fad, data deals are getting better and battery life is lasting longer. Will there be any need for operators to spec these elements?
I am glad there was a re-jig of the GNE zoning structure.
I'm glad there 24 hour ticket was introduced.
Too little, too late? It's nearly the end of Feb, I've not used a UK bus since the second week in December and I'm an 'enthusiast'.
What about 'ordinary' punters?
(21 Feb 2020, 12:56 pm)Andreos1 I don't think the spec currently being promoted on the X30 will be able to sustain itself as anything different in the not too distant future.
I genuinely think it (or at least the majority of it) will become the norm.
It's gonna be an interesting time for commercial and marketing depts as they come up with new ways to attract passengers.
I think we are seeing the slow decline of the route branding fad, data deals are getting better and battery life is lasting longer. Will there be any need for operators to spec these elements?
I am glad there was a re-jig of the GNE zoning structure.
I'm glad there 24 hour ticket was introduced.
Too little, too late? It's nearly the end of Feb, I've not used a UK bus since the second week in December and I'm an 'enthusiast'.
What about 'ordinary' punters?
(21 Feb 2020, 12:56 pm)Andreos1 I don't think the spec currently being promoted on the X30 will be able to sustain itself as anything different in the not too distant future.
I genuinely think it (or at least the majority of it) will become the norm.
It's gonna be an interesting time for commercial and marketing depts as they come up with new ways to attract passengers.
I think we are seeing the slow decline of the route branding fad, data deals are getting better and battery life is lasting longer. Will there be any need for operators to spec these elements?
I am glad there was a re-jig of the GNE zoning structure.
I'm glad there 24 hour ticket was introduced.
Too little, too late? It's nearly the end of Feb, I've not used a UK bus since the second week in December and I'm an 'enthusiast'.
What about 'ordinary' punters?
(21 Feb 2020, 3:50 pm)mb134 Essentially leisure users need to increase - that can only really be done with attractive fares.
(21 Feb 2020, 3:50 pm)mb134 Essentially leisure users need to increase - that can only really be done with attractive fares.
(21 Feb 2020, 4:14 pm)streetdeckfan That's a good point, fares are attractive, and often considerably cheaper than car, as long as you're a regular user. But if you're just using the bus here and there, it does get quite pricey!
(21 Feb 2020, 4:14 pm)streetdeckfan That's a good point, fares are attractive, and often considerably cheaper than car, as long as you're a regular user. But if you're just using the bus here and there, it does get quite pricey!
(21 Feb 2020, 4:47 pm)WheelBus1986 There is a bus 30 seconds from my front door right to the Metrocentre. Because i own a car, it is not economical for me to get a bus as i simply dont spend £5.30 on fuel there and back, if i am with my partner then £10.60 is far too much!
The operators need to keep hold of people before they get a car at a young age, as no one is really going to spend on both, if you already have that outgoing of finance/insurance/tax, fuel is much cheaper than a bus ticket.
When you add it all up, if i currently could get a bus to work, i would get rid of the car it would save me £200+ a month.
When i start at GNE we are going straight down to 1 car. It makes zero sense to have 2 when i do not need it for work. Even if i had to pay for the bus i would still get rid as its not economical to pay for both.
(21 Feb 2020, 4:47 pm)WheelBus1986 There is a bus 30 seconds from my front door right to the Metrocentre. Because i own a car, it is not economical for me to get a bus as i simply dont spend £5.30 on fuel there and back, if i am with my partner then £10.60 is far too much!
The operators need to keep hold of people before they get a car at a young age, as no one is really going to spend on both, if you already have that outgoing of finance/insurance/tax, fuel is much cheaper than a bus ticket.
When you add it all up, if i currently could get a bus to work, i would get rid of the car it would save me £200+ a month.
When i start at GNE we are going straight down to 1 car. It makes zero sense to have 2 when i do not need it for work. Even if i had to pay for the bus i would still get rid as its not economical to pay for both.
(21 Feb 2020, 3:50 pm)mb134 I've believed for quite a while that, bar a few key routes (including things like Airport routes), a strong corporate livery with minimal route branding is the way forward. Things like WiFi, USB sockets, NSAs are becoming standard spec, so going forward operators need to do a better job of marketing other benefits.
Journey times, fares in comparison to parking, fuel, insurance etc, perks of using it on a night into town in comparison to driving is what they need to focus on moving forward. Daytime services, while passenger numbers will probably be slightly lower than they used to be, probably aren't the main issue - evening services using the same vehicles with substantially lower passenger numbers are. Essentially leisure users need to increase - that can only really be done with attractive fares.
(21 Feb 2020, 4:47 pm)WheelBus1986 There is a bus 30 seconds from my front door right to the Metrocentre. Because i own a car, it is not economical for me to get a bus as i simply dont spend £5.30 on fuel there and back, if i am with my partner then £10.60 is far too much!
The operators need to keep hold of people before they get a car at a young age, as no one is really going to spend on both, if you already have that outgoing of finance/insurance/tax, fuel is much cheaper than a bus ticket.
When you add it all up, if i currently could get a bus to work, i would get rid of the car it would save me £200+ a month.
When i start at GNE we are going straight down to 1 car. It makes zero sense to have 2 when i do not need it for work. Even if i had to pay for the bus i would still get rid as its not economical to pay for both.
(21 Feb 2020, 3:50 pm)mb134 I've believed for quite a while that, bar a few key routes (including things like Airport routes), a strong corporate livery with minimal route branding is the way forward. Things like WiFi, USB sockets, NSAs are becoming standard spec, so going forward operators need to do a better job of marketing other benefits.
Journey times, fares in comparison to parking, fuel, insurance etc, perks of using it on a night into town in comparison to driving is what they need to focus on moving forward. Daytime services, while passenger numbers will probably be slightly lower than they used to be, probably aren't the main issue - evening services using the same vehicles with substantially lower passenger numbers are. Essentially leisure users need to increase - that can only really be done with attractive fares.
(21 Feb 2020, 4:47 pm)WheelBus1986 There is a bus 30 seconds from my front door right to the Metrocentre. Because i own a car, it is not economical for me to get a bus as i simply dont spend £5.30 on fuel there and back, if i am with my partner then £10.60 is far too much!
The operators need to keep hold of people before they get a car at a young age, as no one is really going to spend on both, if you already have that outgoing of finance/insurance/tax, fuel is much cheaper than a bus ticket.
When you add it all up, if i currently could get a bus to work, i would get rid of the car it would save me £200+ a month.
When i start at GNE we are going straight down to 1 car. It makes zero sense to have 2 when i do not need it for work. Even if i had to pay for the bus i would still get rid as its not economical to pay for both.
(21 Feb 2020, 5:46 pm)Andreos1 To counter streetdeckfans Mams car, I'm getting 55/58 mpg in mine and paying pennies in tax.
(21 Feb 2020, 5:46 pm)Andreos1 To counter streetdeckfans Mams car, I'm getting 55/58 mpg in mine and paying pennies in tax.
(21 Feb 2020, 5:59 pm)streetdeckfan We need a big car as we move quite a bit of stuff around (we do property development on the side), the downside of that is not the best fuel economy (although better than my friend's Mini Cooper) and £250 a year in tax!
If I had to buy a car, I would get an EV anyway as I love quick cars and have off street parking, so that would basically remove the cost of fuel and tax, but then the insurance is still a killer!
Plus, I like the convenience of just sitting on a bus and getting work done
(21 Feb 2020, 5:59 pm)streetdeckfan We need a big car as we move quite a bit of stuff around (we do property development on the side), the downside of that is not the best fuel economy (although better than my friend's Mini Cooper) and £250 a year in tax!
If I had to buy a car, I would get an EV anyway as I love quick cars and have off street parking, so that would basically remove the cost of fuel and tax, but then the insurance is still a killer!
Plus, I like the convenience of just sitting on a bus and getting work done
(21 Feb 2020, 5:46 pm)Andreos1 I think those two bib highlight exactly what the issue is.
They need to attract people, but it's cheaper and more convenient in the car.
I can't get a direct bus to the metrocentre from my T&W property. Its 3 buses there and the same back, unless its a weekend and I can time my connections with an X88. Then it can be done with one change.
I can be on the A1(M) at Picktree within 5 mins of leaving the house. Granted I'm then at the whims of the Western Bypass, but on a good day I can be there another 10mins later.
To counter streetdeckfans Mams car, I'm getting 55/58 mpg in mine and paying pennies in tax.
For all the WiFi and USB's, there's still no financial incentive or convenience in using the bus.
It's the same if I'm in R&C.
Three buses (needing a multi-operator ticket this time) or the car. But there is the option of the train and it being much quicker than the bus.
Having the railcard makes it cheaper.
(21 Feb 2020, 5:46 pm)Andreos1 I think those two bib highlight exactly what the issue is.
They need to attract people, but it's cheaper and more convenient in the car.
I can't get a direct bus to the metrocentre from my T&W property. Its 3 buses there and the same back, unless its a weekend and I can time my connections with an X88. Then it can be done with one change.
I can be on the A1(M) at Picktree within 5 mins of leaving the house. Granted I'm then at the whims of the Western Bypass, but on a good day I can be there another 10mins later.
To counter streetdeckfans Mams car, I'm getting 55/58 mpg in mine and paying pennies in tax.
For all the WiFi and USB's, there's still no financial incentive or convenience in using the bus.
It's the same if I'm in R&C.
Three buses (needing a multi-operator ticket this time) or the car. But there is the option of the train and it being much quicker than the bus.
Having the railcard makes it cheaper.
(21 Feb 2020, 6:04 pm)Andreos1 Mines a decent sized car too.
It has to be for the things I need it for (and when MrsC wanted the Christmas tree).
Pennies in tax, good mpg and a decent size. It's one of the reasons I got rid of the old one.
The time saved when driving somewhere, allows me to do my work when I get there.
It still doesn't offer an incentive to use the bus, however much I may want to.
(21 Feb 2020, 6:14 pm)mb134 I'm reasonably out of touch with parking charges in the NE, though last I remember Newcastle was free after 5?
Up here the main shopping centre is a flat £1.50 after 18:00, with many other parking places free after 19:00. First sell an "evening ticket" for £3 after 19:00 - no real use to anyone with a car as parking is cheaper and the distance First cover nobody is realistically paying more than £1.50 in petrol (bar one route). I guess the hope for bus companies is that people want to have a drink, which rules the car out completely. Then, however, they need to be priced considerably less than a Taxi and be reasonably convenient.
There is no bus from where I live down home to the Metrocentre, I'd have to change at Haymarket/Eldon Square onto another operator - taking my bus fare to nearly £10. In comparison on that journey my car will do about 45mpg, keep me warm, play the music I want through speakers, and smell of whatever air freshner I've got in - and take less than half the time.
Further, myself and majority of the people I know have a reasonably large chunk of mobile data per month so WiFi - which isn't always straightforward to get onto in the first place - becomes obsolete. Plugs, when they work, are handy but who's taking a USB cable with them on an evening out? Surely you stick your phone on charge while getting changed etc from work, and as most phones have quick charging these days that's you up to 50%+ in about half an hour.
Tables are nice, but again, if there's 4/5 of you are you really going to choose the bus over a car if someone is willing to not drink for one evening? There's also the possibility of tables not being available, people listening in on conversations, someone wanting the window open in the middle of December etc...
(21 Feb 2020, 6:04 pm)Andreos1 Mines a decent sized car too.
It has to be for the things I need it for (and when MrsC wanted the Christmas tree).
Pennies in tax, good mpg and a decent size. It's one of the reasons I got rid of the old one.
The time saved when driving somewhere, allows me to do my work when I get there.
It still doesn't offer an incentive to use the bus, however much I may want to.
(21 Feb 2020, 6:14 pm)mb134 I'm reasonably out of touch with parking charges in the NE, though last I remember Newcastle was free after 5?
Up here the main shopping centre is a flat £1.50 after 18:00, with many other parking places free after 19:00. First sell an "evening ticket" for £3 after 19:00 - no real use to anyone with a car as parking is cheaper and the distance First cover nobody is realistically paying more than £1.50 in petrol (bar one route). I guess the hope for bus companies is that people want to have a drink, which rules the car out completely. Then, however, they need to be priced considerably less than a Taxi and be reasonably convenient.
There is no bus from where I live down home to the Metrocentre, I'd have to change at Haymarket/Eldon Square onto another operator - taking my bus fare to nearly £10. In comparison on that journey my car will do about 45mpg, keep me warm, play the music I want through speakers, and smell of whatever air freshner I've got in - and take less than half the time.
Further, myself and majority of the people I know have a reasonably large chunk of mobile data per month so WiFi - which isn't always straightforward to get onto in the first place - becomes obsolete. Plugs, when they work, are handy but who's taking a USB cable with them on an evening out? Surely you stick your phone on charge while getting changed etc from work, and as most phones have quick charging these days that's you up to 50%+ in about half an hour.
Tables are nice, but again, if there's 4/5 of you are you really going to choose the bus over a car if someone is willing to not drink for one evening? There's also the possibility of tables not being available, people listening in on conversations, someone wanting the window open in the middle of December etc...
(21 Feb 2020, 6:14 pm)mb134 I'm reasonably out of touch with parking charges in the NE, though last I remember Newcastle was free after 5?
Up in Aberdeen the main shopping centre is a flat £1.50 after 18:00, with many other parking places free after 19:00. First sell an "evening ticket" for £3 after 19:00 - no real use to anyone with a car as parking is cheaper and the distance First cover nobody is realistically paying more than £1.50 in petrol (bar one route). I guess the hope for bus companies is that people want to have a drink, which rules the car out completely. Then, however, they need to be priced considerably less than a Taxi and be reasonably convenient.
There is no bus from where I live down home to the Metrocentre, I'd have to change at Haymarket/Eldon Square onto another operator - taking my bus fare to nearly £10. In comparison on that journey my car will do about 45mpg, keep me warm, play the music I want through speakers, and smell of whatever air freshner I've got in - and take less than half the time.
Further, myself and majority of the people I know have a reasonably large chunk of mobile data per month so WiFi - which isn't always straightforward to get onto in the first place - becomes obsolete. Plugs, when they work, are handy but who's taking a USB cable with them on an evening out? Surely you stick your phone on charge while getting changed etc from work, and as most phones have quick charging these days that's you up to 50%+ in about half an hour.
Tables are nice, but again, if there's 4/5 of you are you really going to choose the bus over a car if someone is willing to not drink for one evening? There's also the possibility of tables not being available, people listening in on conversations, someone wanting the window open in the middle of December etc...
(21 Feb 2020, 6:14 pm)mb134 I'm reasonably out of touch with parking charges in the NE, though last I remember Newcastle was free after 5?
Up in Aberdeen the main shopping centre is a flat £1.50 after 18:00, with many other parking places free after 19:00. First sell an "evening ticket" for £3 after 19:00 - no real use to anyone with a car as parking is cheaper and the distance First cover nobody is realistically paying more than £1.50 in petrol (bar one route). I guess the hope for bus companies is that people want to have a drink, which rules the car out completely. Then, however, they need to be priced considerably less than a Taxi and be reasonably convenient.
There is no bus from where I live down home to the Metrocentre, I'd have to change at Haymarket/Eldon Square onto another operator - taking my bus fare to nearly £10. In comparison on that journey my car will do about 45mpg, keep me warm, play the music I want through speakers, and smell of whatever air freshner I've got in - and take less than half the time.
Further, myself and majority of the people I know have a reasonably large chunk of mobile data per month so WiFi - which isn't always straightforward to get onto in the first place - becomes obsolete. Plugs, when they work, are handy but who's taking a USB cable with them on an evening out? Surely you stick your phone on charge while getting changed etc from work, and as most phones have quick charging these days that's you up to 50%+ in about half an hour.
Tables are nice, but again, if there's 4/5 of you are you really going to choose the bus over a car if someone is willing to not drink for one evening? There's also the possibility of tables not being available, people listening in on conversations, someone wanting the window open in the middle of December etc...
(21 Feb 2020, 6:33 pm)Andreos1 Yeah, the Alive after 5 deal is still on. I've seen a fair few operator representatives complaining about the free parking.
I was fortunate in that the Alive after 5 scheme started not too long after GNE axed the direct bus from Newcastle.
(21 Feb 2020, 6:33 pm)Andreos1 Yeah, the Alive after 5 deal is still on. I've seen a fair few operator representatives complaining about the free parking.
I was fortunate in that the Alive after 5 scheme started not too long after GNE axed the direct bus from Newcastle.
(21 Feb 2020, 6:41 pm)mb134 Slightly off topic but this is what councils need to put a stop to if they're wanting to lower city centre emissions. Assuming on an evening families etc are using the car parking and have cars of 3/4 people, one double decker could take 20 cars off the road.
If people are wanting to be in town on an evening, they'll still get into town - be it paying for parking or getting a bus.
(21 Feb 2020, 6:41 pm)mb134 Slightly off topic but this is what councils need to put a stop to if they're wanting to lower city centre emissions. Assuming on an evening families etc are using the car parking and have cars of 3/4 people, one double decker could take 20 cars off the road.
If people are wanting to be in town on an evening, they'll still get into town - be it paying for parking or getting a bus.
(21 Feb 2020, 6:46 pm)Andreos1 Assuming they can get a bus...Indeed.
If they can't, then they either continue driving in or find an alternative.
(21 Feb 2020, 6:46 pm)Andreos1 Assuming they can get a bus...Indeed.
If they can't, then they either continue driving in or find an alternative.
(21 Feb 2020, 7:07 pm)mb134 Indeed.
The annoying thing is that public transport doesn't need to be too jazzy for people to use it. I frequently go to Norway where on the whole buses aren't painted in hugely eye-catching liveries, but are reliable, comfortable and reasonably priced. The few times I've used the buses there on an evening they've had very decent loads, and through the daytime I can't remember ever getting a bus that's had less than 10 or so people.
An example of the simplistic liveries:
https://twitter.com/alextransdev/status/...67268?s=19
(21 Feb 2020, 7:07 pm)mb134 Indeed.
The annoying thing is that public transport doesn't need to be too jazzy for people to use it. I frequently go to Norway where on the whole buses aren't painted in hugely eye-catching liveries, but are reliable, comfortable and reasonably priced. The few times I've used the buses there on an evening they've had very decent loads, and through the daytime I can't remember ever getting a bus that's had less than 10 or so people.
An example of the simplistic liveries:
https://twitter.com/alextransdev/status/...67268?s=19
