Pricing
Pricing
I haven't been able to find the answer through a cursory search, and they are just within our region (and merit a thread) so I may as well ask:
How are Dales and District for fares? I don't think they take contactless so I'd like to have a rough idea of how much cash I'll need for a return from Richmond down to Ripon. I'd also appreciate (if anyone knows) finding out if they do a day ticket so I can travel Richmond - Ripon - Northallerton - Darlington. They don't seem to provide much information about fares, presumably because they don't get that many fare paying passengers!
When I first moved up here I noticed that the fares were simply a rip-off, I live towards Rowlands Gill and my local bus service is the red kite offering of GNE. I had a car down in London for a number of months that was getting fixed and I had to use the bus for the best part of 6 months. 2 of those 6 months completely cleared me out. £5.30 for a return one just one bus is just ridiculous. That same money could get you around the whole London network for a day which is a far more expensive city.
There's a push to get people using public transport more, backed up by the talk of carbon emissions ect, but when your bus doesn't show up in the morning and there is little to no communication to tell you why, you won't care about the wifi, tables, leather seats and fancy colour schemes. You just want to get to where you are going. The model in London is different, there are no commercial services, it's all tendered work which means if a bus doesn't show up the operator is heavily penalised. So there is an incentive to run on time. In the rare event that a bus doesn't show, the frequencies can make up for it and buses are adjusted.
I remember once in Sunderland, there were delays for whatever reason and I remember seeing 4 16s in a row, none adjusted and thus leaving a big gap in service. Who wants to trade their car for that?! The buses will never be attractive to young people who now have their mind dictated by social media, everybody wants to fit the "image" and a car is certainly apart of this.
The lack of connections in certain parts of the city is just terrible and puts you off using the bus altogether due to the price again. I think people in my area would greatly benefit from a service that could run from Rowlands Gill - Whitley Bay via Four Lane Ends the Cobalt. A nice cross-city service linking the main hubs of employment and also a place of leisure in the summer months.
I think tendered services are the way forward, it creates better competition and not just operators trying to time themselves in front of the other, cheaper fares, an enhanced bus network and it would increase patronage. Manchester is another City who are going to adopt this approach and it cleatrly works. Look at London.
(27 Feb 2020, 2:14 pm)Big O When I first moved up here I noticed that the fares were simply a rip-off, I live towards Rowlands Gill and my local bus service is the red kite offering of GNE. I had a car down in London for a number of months that was getting fixed and I had to use the bus for the best part of 6 months. 2 of those 6 months completely cleared me out. £5.30 for a return one just one bus is just ridiculous. That same money could get you around the whole London network for a day which is a far more expensive city.You can't really compare north east with London and go north east is actually quite cheao
There's a push to get people using public transport more, backed up by the talk of carbon emissions ect, but when your bus doesn't show up in the morning and there is little to no communication to tell you why, you won't care about the wifi, tables, leather seats and fancy colour schemes. You just want to get to where you are going. The model in London is different, there are no commercial services, it's all tendered work which means if a bus doesn't show up the operator is heavily penalised. So there is an incentive to run on time. In the rare event that a bus doesn't show, the frequencies can make up for it and buses are adjusted.
I remember once in Sunderland, there were delays for whatever reason and I remember seeing 4 16s in a row, none adjusted and thus leaving a big gap in service. Who wants to trade their car for that?! The buses will never be attractive to young people who now have their mind dictated by social media, everybody wants to fit the "image" and a car is certainly apart of this.
The lack of connections in certain parts of the city is just terrible and puts you off using the bus altogether due to the price again. I think people in my area would greatly benefit from a service that could run from Rowlands Gill - Whitley Bay via Four Lane Ends the Cobalt. A nice cross-city service linking the main hubs of employment and also a place of leisure in the summer months.
I think tendered services are the way forward, it creates better competition and not just operators trying to time themselves in front of the other, cheaper fares, an enhanced bus network and it would increase patronage. Manchester is another City who are going to adopt this approach and it cleatrly works. Look at London.
(27 Feb 2020, 2:14 pm)Big O When I first moved up here I noticed that the fares were simply a rip-off, I live towards Rowlands Gill and my local bus service is the red kite offering of GNE. I had a car down in London for a number of months that was getting fixed and I had to use the bus for the best part of 6 months. 2 of those 6 months completely cleared me out. £5.30 for a return one just one bus is just ridiculous. That same money could get you around the whole London network for a day which is a far more expensive city.You can't really compare north east with London and go north east is actually quite cheao
There's a push to get people using public transport more, backed up by the talk of carbon emissions ect, but when your bus doesn't show up in the morning and there is little to no communication to tell you why, you won't care about the wifi, tables, leather seats and fancy colour schemes. You just want to get to where you are going. The model in London is different, there are no commercial services, it's all tendered work which means if a bus doesn't show up the operator is heavily penalised. So there is an incentive to run on time. In the rare event that a bus doesn't show, the frequencies can make up for it and buses are adjusted.
I remember once in Sunderland, there were delays for whatever reason and I remember seeing 4 16s in a row, none adjusted and thus leaving a big gap in service. Who wants to trade their car for that?! The buses will never be attractive to young people who now have their mind dictated by social media, everybody wants to fit the "image" and a car is certainly apart of this.
The lack of connections in certain parts of the city is just terrible and puts you off using the bus altogether due to the price again. I think people in my area would greatly benefit from a service that could run from Rowlands Gill - Whitley Bay via Four Lane Ends the Cobalt. A nice cross-city service linking the main hubs of employment and also a place of leisure in the summer months.
I think tendered services are the way forward, it creates better competition and not just operators trying to time themselves in front of the other, cheaper fares, an enhanced bus network and it would increase patronage. Manchester is another City who are going to adopt this approach and it cleatrly works. Look at London.
(27 Feb 2020, 2:52 pm)Ds1197 You can't really compare north east with London and go north east is actually quite cheao
(27 Feb 2020, 2:52 pm)Ds1197 You can't really compare north east with London and go north east is actually quite cheao
(27 Feb 2020, 3:10 pm)RM2186 London Bus services received a £722 million subsidy to produce nice cheap fares for those that earn a greater wage than those outside. Something wrong there and maybe answers your question as to the reasons fares in the North East are comparably higher.
(27 Feb 2020, 3:10 pm)RM2186 London Bus services received a £722 million subsidy to produce nice cheap fares for those that earn a greater wage than those outside. Something wrong there and maybe answers your question as to the reasons fares in the North East are comparably higher.
(27 Feb 2020, 5:09 pm)RM2186 https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transpor...96581.html
(27 Feb 2020, 5:09 pm)RM2186 https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transpor...96581.html
(27 Feb 2020, 3:02 pm)Big O Your definition of cheap and mine must be different. London services are no-thrills, NSA announcements on every bus, and some now have USB charging points and Wi-Fi. The difference is a better-integrated network which actually makes sense you using the bus over the car in a lot of cases. All the money spent on here to make buses fancy could be put into R&D to find out what the public want versus what the overheads think they want. A standard fare of £1.50 per journey and a hopper fare which means you can change as many times as you want in an hour is an attractive business model that has worked down there.Those London fares are very heavily subsidised. Bus companies have to be profitable.
(27 Feb 2020, 3:02 pm)Big O Your definition of cheap and mine must be different. London services are no-thrills, NSA announcements on every bus, and some now have USB charging points and Wi-Fi. The difference is a better-integrated network which actually makes sense you using the bus over the car in a lot of cases. All the money spent on here to make buses fancy could be put into R&D to find out what the public want versus what the overheads think they want. A standard fare of £1.50 per journey and a hopper fare which means you can change as many times as you want in an hour is an attractive business model that has worked down there.Those London fares are very heavily subsidised. Bus companies have to be profitable.
(27 Feb 2020, 8:22 pm)BusLoverMum Those London fares are very heavily subsidised. Bus companies have to be profitable.
Considering large parts of our region are rural, what we have isn't at all bad compared with a lot of the provinces. Lots of small villages have a bus every hour or two or even every half hour and often a few to different places, while down in parts of East Yorkshire and some parts of the southwest, people are lucky to see a bus a day.
It's rare that a bus doesn't show up because the bus has conked out. There's usually circumstances way beyond the operator's control such as traffic delays (which affect car drivers, too) causes by roadworks, accidents, severe weather or just plain gridlock.
(27 Feb 2020, 8:22 pm)BusLoverMum Those London fares are very heavily subsidised. Bus companies have to be profitable.
Considering large parts of our region are rural, what we have isn't at all bad compared with a lot of the provinces. Lots of small villages have a bus every hour or two or even every half hour and often a few to different places, while down in parts of East Yorkshire and some parts of the southwest, people are lucky to see a bus a day.
It's rare that a bus doesn't show up because the bus has conked out. There's usually circumstances way beyond the operator's control such as traffic delays (which affect car drivers, too) causes by roadworks, accidents, severe weather or just plain gridlock.
Saw this the other day when I was trying to find some dates for the R19.
(27 Feb 2020, 3:02 pm)Big O Your definition of cheap and mine must be different. London services are no-thrills, NSA announcements on every bus, and some now have USB charging points and Wi-Fi. The difference is a better-integrated network which actually makes sense you using the bus over the car in a lot of cases. All the money spent on here to make buses fancy could be put into R&D to find out what the public want versus what the overheads think they want. A standard fare of £1.50 per journey and a hopper fare which means you can change as many times as you want in an hour is an attractive business model that has worked down there.The buses in the North East are much better compared to other areas. In Essex, it’s First territory, majority 15 year old buses, no WiFi, next stop announcements etc. 20 year old deckers on major services. Expensive, Old, Unreliable. GNE do good value tickets(a weekly ticket is more than 2x cheaper) and provide a good service. Fancy buses, that’s what customers want. London is heavily subsidised and don’t have WiFi and most don’t have USB ports. Businesses have to make a profit to survive. If GNE and Stagecoach did what London did, they’d be out of business.
(27 Feb 2020, 3:02 pm)Big O Your definition of cheap and mine must be different. London services are no-thrills, NSA announcements on every bus, and some now have USB charging points and Wi-Fi. The difference is a better-integrated network which actually makes sense you using the bus over the car in a lot of cases. All the money spent on here to make buses fancy could be put into R&D to find out what the public want versus what the overheads think they want. A standard fare of £1.50 per journey and a hopper fare which means you can change as many times as you want in an hour is an attractive business model that has worked down there.The buses in the North East are much better compared to other areas. In Essex, it’s First territory, majority 15 year old buses, no WiFi, next stop announcements etc. 20 year old deckers on major services. Expensive, Old, Unreliable. GNE do good value tickets(a weekly ticket is more than 2x cheaper) and provide a good service. Fancy buses, that’s what customers want. London is heavily subsidised and don’t have WiFi and most don’t have USB ports. Businesses have to make a profit to survive. If GNE and Stagecoach did what London did, they’d be out of business.
(29 Feb 2020, 8:42 pm)Adtrainsam The buses in the North East are much better compared to other areas. In Essex, it’s First territory, majority 15 year old buses, no WiFi, next stop announcements etc. 20 year old deckers on major services. Expensive, Old, Unreliable. GNE do good value tickets(a weekly ticket is more than 2x cheaper) and provide a good service. Fancy buses, that’s what customers want. London is heavily subsidised and don’t have WiFi and most don’t have USB ports. Businesses have to make a profit to survive. If GNE and Stagecoach did what London did, they’d be out of business.
(29 Feb 2020, 8:42 pm)Adtrainsam The buses in the North East are much better compared to other areas. In Essex, it’s First territory, majority 15 year old buses, no WiFi, next stop announcements etc. 20 year old deckers on major services. Expensive, Old, Unreliable. GNE do good value tickets(a weekly ticket is more than 2x cheaper) and provide a good service. Fancy buses, that’s what customers want. London is heavily subsidised and don’t have WiFi and most don’t have USB ports. Businesses have to make a profit to survive. If GNE and Stagecoach did what London did, they’d be out of business.
(01 Mar 2020, 1:13 am)Big O Fancy buses are not what the industry wants. A bus to run on time is what the passenger wants.
(01 Mar 2020, 7:03 am)Dan So why do operators keep spending lots of money on trying to improve customer experience on-board buses? Are they all wrong?Got my words mixed up, I meant to say fancy Buses is what the industry wants. A passenger wants a reliable service. I’ve yet to encounter someone who thinks a table can account for a late running service. You’d get more footfall if that money was invested into more frequent service and maintenance to make vehicles more reliable. E-leather seats on a streetlite do not disguise the fact it’s an uncomfortable rough riding bus with a cramped and claustrophobic feeling interior.
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(01 Mar 2020, 7:03 am)Dan So why do operators keep spending lots of money on trying to improve customer experience on-board buses? Are they all wrong?Got my words mixed up, I meant to say fancy Buses is what the industry wants. A passenger wants a reliable service. I’ve yet to encounter someone who thinks a table can account for a late running service. You’d get more footfall if that money was invested into more frequent service and maintenance to make vehicles more reliable. E-leather seats on a streetlite do not disguise the fact it’s an uncomfortable rough riding bus with a cramped and claustrophobic feeling interior.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
(01 Mar 2020, 10:31 am)Big O Got my words mixed up, I meant to say fancy Buses is what the industry wants. A passenger wants a reliable service. I’ve yet to encounter someone who thinks a table can account for a late running service. You’d get more footfall if that money was invested into more frequent service and maintenance to make vehicles more reliable. E-leather seats on a streetlite do not disguise the fact it’s an uncomfortable rough riding bus with a cramped and claustrophobic feeling interior.
(01 Mar 2020, 10:31 am)Big O Got my words mixed up, I meant to say fancy Buses is what the industry wants. A passenger wants a reliable service. I’ve yet to encounter someone who thinks a table can account for a late running service. You’d get more footfall if that money was invested into more frequent service and maintenance to make vehicles more reliable. E-leather seats on a streetlite do not disguise the fact it’s an uncomfortable rough riding bus with a cramped and claustrophobic feeling interior.
(01 Mar 2020, 12:26 pm)EAndreos1 Cars can link to Spotify and are comfortable. It's possible to charge your phone in the car too.I agree, it’s all ridiculous to be fair and only someone biased or trying to impress their overheads could disagree.
No different to what you can do on the bus, yet bus operators are pushing these things as luxuries.
But inconveniencing passengers with prices, changes and limitations on service hours.
I've never had those restrictions in the car and can do without the urge to scroll through social media every few minutes.
(01 Mar 2020, 12:26 pm)EAndreos1 Cars can link to Spotify and are comfortable. It's possible to charge your phone in the car too.I agree, it’s all ridiculous to be fair and only someone biased or trying to impress their overheads could disagree.
No different to what you can do on the bus, yet bus operators are pushing these things as luxuries.
But inconveniencing passengers with prices, changes and limitations on service hours.
I've never had those restrictions in the car and can do without the urge to scroll through social media every few minutes.
(01 Mar 2020, 3:23 pm)Big O I agree, it’s all ridiculous to be fair and only someone biased or trying to impress their overheads could disagree.
A bus will always be a bus, no one really likes them and gets on one because it’s has tables or WiFi. Run them on time and to places people actually want to go and you’ll get a return on your investment. I don’t use the WiFi on public vehicles anyway because it isn’t secure and data can easily be interfered with.
(01 Mar 2020, 3:23 pm)Big O I agree, it’s all ridiculous to be fair and only someone biased or trying to impress their overheads could disagree.
A bus will always be a bus, no one really likes them and gets on one because it’s has tables or WiFi. Run them on time and to places people actually want to go and you’ll get a return on your investment. I don’t use the WiFi on public vehicles anyway because it isn’t secure and data can easily be interfered with.
(01 Mar 2020, 4:50 pm)Dan Maybe I'm biased then, as I disagree. There are numerous articles online which attribute improving customer experience, by way of more premium specification features on-board buses, to revenue growth.
A couple of Arriva examples, admittedly in the trade press a few years old now, are below:
https://cbwmagazine.com/arriva-goes-max/
https://www.busandcoachbuyer.com/arriva-...re-growth/
In my opinion; providing a reliable bus service that goes to the places its users want to go to, maintains revenue. Operators have to do more to protect that revenue and grow it. Schemes such as Arriva's 'Sapphire' and 'MAX' - and more recently Go North East's 'X-lines' - aim to provide a better customer experience for the operators' passengers, with the view of boosting revenue.
Sadly merely maintaining existing passenger numbers and/or revenue is not sustainable. Bus operators' costs rise every year with employees' pay rises alone. That's before you consider other factors, such as fuel, insurance, etc. Operators need to do something more than provide a basic bus service to increase patronage to make this affordable, and I'd argue investing in new buses and refurbishing existing buses with better features, definitely contribute to doing this.
Clearly some operators see no other alternative but to reduce service levels in order to reduce costs and in turn maintain profit levels. This is a last resort, I'm sure, as operators know that reducing service levels will see a reduction in passenger numbers and hence revenue.
(01 Mar 2020, 4:50 pm)Dan Maybe I'm biased then, as I disagree. There are numerous articles online which attribute improving customer experience, by way of more premium specification features on-board buses, to revenue growth.
A couple of Arriva examples, admittedly in the trade press a few years old now, are below:
https://cbwmagazine.com/arriva-goes-max/
https://www.busandcoachbuyer.com/arriva-...re-growth/
In my opinion; providing a reliable bus service that goes to the places its users want to go to, maintains revenue. Operators have to do more to protect that revenue and grow it. Schemes such as Arriva's 'Sapphire' and 'MAX' - and more recently Go North East's 'X-lines' - aim to provide a better customer experience for the operators' passengers, with the view of boosting revenue.
Sadly merely maintaining existing passenger numbers and/or revenue is not sustainable. Bus operators' costs rise every year with employees' pay rises alone. That's before you consider other factors, such as fuel, insurance, etc. Operators need to do something more than provide a basic bus service to increase patronage to make this affordable, and I'd argue investing in new buses and refurbishing existing buses with better features, definitely contribute to doing this.
Clearly some operators see no other alternative but to reduce service levels in order to reduce costs and in turn maintain profit levels. This is a last resort, I'm sure, as operators know that reducing service levels will see a reduction in passenger numbers and hence revenue.
