Branding - Stay or go?
Branding - Stay or go?
(16 Sep 2023, 7:15 pm)Fleetmaster Where I live, the main street in places like Horden, is a tiny back street. The whole place is a tiny backwater.
If Go North East doesn't want people to know there are direct bus links from major hubs to these tiny distant places, unless they are unlucky enough to have to make this journey as a regular commuter, so be it.
In my travels, I noticed a few points of interest in places like Horden that I might want to make a specific trip to one day. I have access to a car, and don't mind using the combination of bike and train either. It is only because I have a good idea of hwo vast GNE's operating area is, that I would even know to look up whether a direct bus exists, in some nightmare future where the whole network is one red blob. Others probably don't know these things, just like they don't spend a second perusing network maps and publicity just out of general interest.
(16 Sep 2023, 7:15 pm)Fleetmaster Where I live, the main street in places like Horden, is a tiny back street. The whole place is a tiny backwater.
If Go North East doesn't want people to know there are direct bus links from major hubs to these tiny distant places, unless they are unlucky enough to have to make this journey as a regular commuter, so be it.
In my travels, I noticed a few points of interest in places like Horden that I might want to make a specific trip to one day. I have access to a car, and don't mind using the combination of bike and train either. It is only because I have a good idea of hwo vast GNE's operating area is, that I would even know to look up whether a direct bus exists, in some nightmare future where the whole network is one red blob. Others probably don't know these things, just like they don't spend a second perusing network maps and publicity just out of general interest.
(16 Sep 2023, 10:32 pm)Andreos1 In which case, you've yet again contradicted yourself, because the X1 goes nowhere near Horden.
To labour the point, the branding is not there to attract the attention of people already familiar with the service because they use it regularly. It would be no surprise that those people can just about tell the approaching bus has the right number. I doubt they even notice if the destination is wrong. And in that specific case, as far as I know, it no longer even has a name. It used to be the Red Arrow, now it is just the red variant of X-Lines. The gold and red makes it instantly recognizable. That is the brand, in simple terms.
If the bosses took the unwise step of deploying a generic gold livery for X lines, even though in their minds that is just a few routes in their empire, in practical terms, that means a person like me sees at least twenty different gold buses in an average day, miles apart. Too many to care where they go beyond the vague idea they are meant as some kind of express network.
Which just brings us back to how bizarre it is to a person who lives in actual civilization, that their idea of an express network is also one that serves tiny out of the way villages. Seeing these buses randomly appear at very tight junctions, or being forced to wait for an old lady or tractor, never ceases to be a source of amusement. Seeing one the other day with a very smashed windscreen was hardly a surprise, since fast and frequent is hardly compatible with their routes touching the outer reaches of the galaxy.
But I find myself increasingly disinterested in the whys and wherefores of why a particular generic red Enviro decker is struggling up a steep bank, or why another one was circling its way around a long estate road, and whether both had the same route number, or even if this sort of thing is complementing or competing with the same boring generic nonsense of seeing Arriva Enviro Deckers trundling around doing the same thing, just with more pollution belching out the back
For all I know, the red bus is a local route and the blue bus can take you to far off mysterious places like Hartlepool. Then again, who would know in the current climate of bus companies giving very little concern to branding, if it was the exact opposite. In the old days you could rely on branding to tell you if GNE had suddenly made a grab for a place like Hartlepool. Now you would have no clue unless you saw the display.
To know for sure, I'd have to start scribbling down route numbers and consulting assorted poorly conceived proprietary apps and try to memorize what I learned for future reference. I'd rather spend my time taking in the scenery to be honest.
(16 Sep 2023, 10:32 pm)Andreos1 In which case, you've yet again contradicted yourself, because the X1 goes nowhere near Horden.
(16 Sep 2023, 10:30 pm)Storx It's not, let's be honest for most people it's because they have no alternative. No-one would use the buses up here, if they had a choice because of the absolutely shambles of the service they're providing especially with GoNorthEast and Arriva. I wouldn't be surprised if 99% of people in the real world would be happy if GoNorthEast went bust and their route was took over by someone else. Imagine it being similar for Arriva aswell.
It'd be very interesting if they done a genuine poll of the approval ratings for them as I wouldn't be surprised if it's well below 20%. Of course, not the ones that are done on the buses which are as reliable as a donkey. Infact that might actually get you there, when there's 3 hour gaps like on some routes today.
(16 Sep 2023, 10:43 pm)Fleetmaster To labour the point, the branding is not there to attract the attention of people already familiar with the service because they use it regularly. It would be no surprise that those people can just about tell the approaching bus has the right number. I doubt they even notice if the destination is wrong. And in that specific case, as far as I know, it no longer even has a name. It used to be the Red Arrow, now it is just the red variant of X-Lines. The gold and red makes it instantly recognizable. That is the brand, in simple terms.
(16 Sep 2023, 10:30 pm)Storx It's not, let's be honest for most people it's because they have no alternative. No-one would use the buses up here, if they had a choice because of the absolutely shambles of the service they're providing especially with GoNorthEast and Arriva. I wouldn't be surprised if 99% of people in the real world would be happy if GoNorthEast went bust and their route was took over by someone else. Imagine it being similar for Arriva aswell.
It'd be very interesting if they done a genuine poll of the approval ratings for them as I wouldn't be surprised if it's well below 20%. Of course, not the ones that are done on the buses which are as reliable as a donkey. Infact that might actually get you there, when there's 3 hour gaps like on some routes today.
(16 Sep 2023, 10:43 pm)Fleetmaster To labour the point, the branding is not there to attract the attention of people already familiar with the service because they use it regularly. It would be no surprise that those people can just about tell the approaching bus has the right number. I doubt they even notice if the destination is wrong. And in that specific case, as far as I know, it no longer even has a name. It used to be the Red Arrow, now it is just the red variant of X-Lines. The gold and red makes it instantly recognizable. That is the brand, in simple terms.
(17 Sep 2023, 12:07 am)mb134 This seems to be quite a pessimistic view on things.
As I think I've said on here before, I commute daily by bus. I have a car parked outside which I could use, and occasionally do if it's going to be a long day. The bus is unbranded and on an hourly frequency.
In the past year of me using it, it hasn't shown up in the AM on one occasion (breakdown), and on the way home on one occasion. It's generally very punctual, the fares outside of the £2 cap aren't too bad, and the vehicle is generally pretty clean inside. In that year, I've watched the service go from carrying 15-20 or so on my morning commute to well over 40 most mornings across the entire journey, and it appears to be getting even busier the past couple of weeks. I imagine the people using that service are probably pretty happy with the delivery of it, and the money they're paying to use it.
Maybe the folks that get my bus don't grumble too much, but even on the few occasions where stuff has gone wrong (gridlocked traffic, bus late because of roadworks, ridiculous council road closures and diversions etc.) they generally seem pretty understanding and have a laugh about it rather than getting irate with the driver or wishing it was ran by First Bus/NatEx/Lothian/insert bus company name here.
You seem to be suggesting that branding is used to attract new customers to a service, and is the only way of achieving this.
In my reply to Storx I've highlighted that the service I use on a daily basis is completely unbranded, yet has ballooned in popularity over the past year of me using it. There's also been very little in the way of promotion of the service as far as I've seen. How do you propose they've managed this?
(17 Sep 2023, 12:07 am)mb134 This seems to be quite a pessimistic view on things.
As I think I've said on here before, I commute daily by bus. I have a car parked outside which I could use, and occasionally do if it's going to be a long day. The bus is unbranded and on an hourly frequency.
In the past year of me using it, it hasn't shown up in the AM on one occasion (breakdown), and on the way home on one occasion. It's generally very punctual, the fares outside of the £2 cap aren't too bad, and the vehicle is generally pretty clean inside. In that year, I've watched the service go from carrying 15-20 or so on my morning commute to well over 40 most mornings across the entire journey, and it appears to be getting even busier the past couple of weeks. I imagine the people using that service are probably pretty happy with the delivery of it, and the money they're paying to use it.
Maybe the folks that get my bus don't grumble too much, but even on the few occasions where stuff has gone wrong (gridlocked traffic, bus late because of roadworks, ridiculous council road closures and diversions etc.) they generally seem pretty understanding and have a laugh about it rather than getting irate with the driver or wishing it was ran by First Bus/NatEx/Lothian/insert bus company name here.
You seem to be suggesting that branding is used to attract new customers to a service, and is the only way of achieving this.
In my reply to Storx I've highlighted that the service I use on a daily basis is completely unbranded, yet has ballooned in popularity over the past year of me using it. There's also been very little in the way of promotion of the service as far as I've seen. How do you propose they've managed this?
(16 Sep 2023, 8:02 pm)Storx Have to relate to this, mind I'd use the X82 - tongue in cheek as it's 10x quicker.
The brands have just caused confusion imo since some of them have been changed more times than GoNorthEast have pissed around with the local routes in Washington.
Are we going for the Creme Drifter, Green Drifter, The 9's, The Sunderland Blues, The Sunderland Violets, East Durham Explorer or Corporate bus? As that's what has been on the 61/9/61/61A in the past decade and no doubt there's other routes even worse.
Also if someone can use BusTimes, I'd be concerned if they don't understand the number of the route. BusTimes is not user friendly unless ironically you know the route number you want as brands aren't mentioned on there...?
(16 Sep 2023, 10:13 pm)Shrek I know this is a very small sample size, but I know eight people who regularly get the X1 between Washington and Newcastle. I sent them a message tonight asking if they know what the brand name for the x1 is. Only one or the eight knew.
I honestly don't think branding has a big impact for the majority, though clearly for the a small number it will.
(16 Sep 2023, 8:02 pm)Storx Have to relate to this, mind I'd use the X82 - tongue in cheek as it's 10x quicker.
The brands have just caused confusion imo since some of them have been changed more times than GoNorthEast have pissed around with the local routes in Washington.
Are we going for the Creme Drifter, Green Drifter, The 9's, The Sunderland Blues, The Sunderland Violets, East Durham Explorer or Corporate bus? As that's what has been on the 61/9/61/61A in the past decade and no doubt there's other routes even worse.
Also if someone can use BusTimes, I'd be concerned if they don't understand the number of the route. BusTimes is not user friendly unless ironically you know the route number you want as brands aren't mentioned on there...?
(16 Sep 2023, 10:13 pm)Shrek I know this is a very small sample size, but I know eight people who regularly get the X1 between Washington and Newcastle. I sent them a message tonight asking if they know what the brand name for the x1 is. Only one or the eight knew.
I honestly don't think branding has a big impact for the majority, though clearly for the a small number it will.
(19 Sep 2023, 8:29 pm)Drifter60 Oh you forgot the SimpliCity Purple Versas and then the plain Silver Mercs cast offs from the 2A! The 61 has to be the worst, but sure there’s others not far behind!61 from what I can remember has had, The Dennis, Cadets, Versas, Citaros (Silver/Red/Purple), Streetlites (thats in 15 years) not to mention a re-brand
Ask your sample if they knew the Red Arrows bus! I think whilst people probably never referred to it as such, people noticed the name. I think it was a daft decision to change it really, although I know why they did it.
(19 Sep 2023, 8:29 pm)Drifter60 Oh you forgot the SimpliCity Purple Versas and then the plain Silver Mercs cast offs from the 2A! The 61 has to be the worst, but sure there’s others not far behind!61 from what I can remember has had, The Dennis, Cadets, Versas, Citaros (Silver/Red/Purple), Streetlites (thats in 15 years) not to mention a re-brand
Ask your sample if they knew the Red Arrows bus! I think whilst people probably never referred to it as such, people noticed the name. I think it was a daft decision to change it really, although I know why they did it.
(19 Sep 2023, 8:29 pm)Drifter60
Ask your sample if they knew the Red Arrows bus! I think whilst people probably never referred to it as such, people noticed the name. I think it was a daft decision to change it really, although I know why they did it.
(19 Sep 2023, 8:29 pm)Drifter60
Ask your sample if they knew the Red Arrows bus! I think whilst people probably never referred to it as such, people noticed the name. I think it was a daft decision to change it really, although I know why they did it.
“Look out for our distinctive purple buses”
https://flic.kr/p/2p4uyoo
(22 Sep 2023, 8:24 am)ne14ne1 “Look out for our distinctive purple buses”
https://flic.kr/p/2p4uyoo
(22 Sep 2023, 8:24 am)ne14ne1 “Look out for our distinctive purple buses”
https://flic.kr/p/2p4uyoo
(23 Sep 2023, 11:26 am)Ex-conductor Same bus operating service 354 this morning.
On the first day of operation of the 354 I rode it from Shields to Killingworth and back. Corporate liveried-buses on both journeys, and little evidence of purple buses on other routes (353, 359) during my journeys.
I really don't see the point.
(23 Sep 2023, 11:26 am)Ex-conductor Same bus operating service 354 this morning.
On the first day of operation of the 354 I rode it from Shields to Killingworth and back. Corporate liveried-buses on both journeys, and little evidence of purple buses on other routes (353, 359) during my journeys.
I really don't see the point.
(01 Nov 2023, 10:55 pm)Unber43 Can anyone think of a brand name for the 61 - East Durham Explorer doesnt really fit considering it just goes into it
I've thought of a few
CityLink
CitySwift
but they just seem to have no link to the route
(01 Nov 2023, 10:55 pm)Unber43 Can anyone think of a brand name for the 61 - East Durham Explorer doesnt really fit considering it just goes into it
I've thought of a few
CityLink
CitySwift
but they just seem to have no link to the route
(01 Nov 2023, 11:32 pm)Storx Drifter.Or up the 60 to 12 mins and the 61 to 20 mins. Cut the Peterlee Leg, bring back the 202 and possibly extend that upto Parkside to add a link to Dalton Park back to Dawdon.
Then at the same time up it to every 15 minutes between Dalton Park and Sunderland with an extra 2 PVR and run it as every 7.5 minutes combined between Eastlea and Sunderland rather than the 61 just sitting there aimlessly. Should help with the supposed capacity issues on the 60 aswell.
(01 Nov 2023, 11:32 pm)Storx Drifter.Or up the 60 to 12 mins and the 61 to 20 mins. Cut the Peterlee Leg, bring back the 202 and possibly extend that upto Parkside to add a link to Dalton Park back to Dawdon.
Then at the same time up it to every 15 minutes between Dalton Park and Sunderland with an extra 2 PVR and run it as every 7.5 minutes combined between Eastlea and Sunderland rather than the 61 just sitting there aimlessly. Should help with the supposed capacity issues on the 60 aswell.
(01 Nov 2023, 11:38 pm)Unber43 Or up the 60 to 12 mins and the 61 to 20 mins. Cut the Peterlee Leg, bring back the 202 and possibly extend that upto Parkside to add a link to Dalton Park back to Dawdon.
But I think for people it literally is which ever one comes first, its always been that way, only the 22/23 they let past, whether thats going to continue who knows.
Same what they used to do with the 42/61/60 when they used to leapfrog between Grangetown and Sunderland.
(01 Nov 2023, 11:38 pm)Unber43 Or up the 60 to 12 mins and the 61 to 20 mins. Cut the Peterlee Leg, bring back the 202 and possibly extend that upto Parkside to add a link to Dalton Park back to Dawdon.
But I think for people it literally is which ever one comes first, its always been that way, only the 22/23 they let past, whether thats going to continue who knows.
Same what they used to do with the 42/61/60 when they used to leapfrog between Grangetown and Sunderland.
(01 Nov 2023, 11:51 pm)Storx Wouldn't really work 20 and 12 as they'd bounce all over the place. Need even services really to do it.Imo, all Sunderland services which go around central sunderland
That corridor is a mess though so many brands and they all virtually do the same route especially the 2/2A/39/39A/39B/60/61 South of Sunderland and also 2/2A/39/39A/78 along Chester Road.
Get arid of them all imo and renumber the routes tidily and advertise it as 14 buses an hour or whatever it is nowadays and upto every 5 minutes.
(01 Nov 2023, 11:51 pm)Storx Wouldn't really work 20 and 12 as they'd bounce all over the place. Need even services really to do it.Imo, all Sunderland services which go around central sunderland
That corridor is a mess though so many brands and they all virtually do the same route especially the 2/2A/39/39A/39B/60/61 South of Sunderland and also 2/2A/39/39A/78 along Chester Road.
Get arid of them all imo and renumber the routes tidily and advertise it as 14 buses an hour or whatever it is nowadays and upto every 5 minutes.
(01 Nov 2023, 11:59 pm)Unber43 Imo, all Sunderland services which go around central sunderland
GNE - 33/2/2A/39/A/B/35/35A
SCNE - 3/4/16/20 etc
Should be renamed in the 30-42 number system imo.
(01 Nov 2023, 11:59 pm)Unber43 Imo, all Sunderland services which go around central sunderland
GNE - 33/2/2A/39/A/B/35/35A
SCNE - 3/4/16/20 etc
Should be renamed in the 30-42 number system imo.
(01 Nov 2023, 10:55 pm)Unber43 Can anyone think of a brand name for the 61 - East Durham Explorer doesnt really fit considering it just goes into it
I've thought of a few
CityLink
CitySwift
but they just seem to have no link to the route
(01 Nov 2023, 10:55 pm)Unber43 Can anyone think of a brand name for the 61 - East Durham Explorer doesnt really fit considering it just goes into it
I've thought of a few
CityLink
CitySwift
but they just seem to have no link to the route
