Reintroduction of Temporarily Reduced Services Back to Original Frequency
Reintroduction of Temporarily Reduced Services Back to Original Frequency
So with the 39/39A/33 all being increased recently at Deptford any news on whether the X20 would return, or the 60 which i believe is the last service at Deptford to not have their frequency re-increased.
As well Rainton Bridge needs a much better service, early 20A are needed, especially if the rumored X20 to only be from Sunderland to Durham limited Stop, Barnes, Lidl, Board Inn, Houghton and Durham.
Any news on any of these?
Obviously you had the 53/54 which seems to be permanent, as with the 97
(04 Aug 2023, 9:34 pm)Unber43 So with the 39/39A/33 all being increased recently at Deptford any news on whether the X20 would return, or the 60 which i believe is the last service at Deptford to not have their frequency re-increased.
As well Rainton Bridge needs a much better service, early 20A are needed, especially if the rumored X20 to only be from Sunderland to Durham limited Stop, Barnes, Lidl, Board Inn, Houghton and Durham.
Any news on any of these?
Obviously you had the 53/54 which seems to be permanent, as with the 97
(04 Aug 2023, 9:34 pm)Unber43 So with the 39/39A/33 all being increased recently at Deptford any news on whether the X20 would return, or the 60 which i believe is the last service at Deptford to not have their frequency re-increased.
As well Rainton Bridge needs a much better service, early 20A are needed, especially if the rumored X20 to only be from Sunderland to Durham limited Stop, Barnes, Lidl, Board Inn, Houghton and Durham.
Any news on any of these?
Obviously you had the 53/54 which seems to be permanent, as with the 97
(05 Aug 2023, 7:24 am)busmanT An X20 with just 4 intermediate stops is unlikely to be viable in my view, there won’t be enough passengers from just those stops.
The frequency increases on the 39 and X6 have provided additional capacity at Ryhope and Seaham and must have taken some passengers off the 60.
(05 Aug 2023, 7:24 am)busmanT An X20 with just 4 intermediate stops is unlikely to be viable in my view, there won’t be enough passengers from just those stops.
The frequency increases on the 39 and X6 have provided additional capacity at Ryhope and Seaham and must have taken some passengers off the 60.
(05 Aug 2023, 11:01 am)Adrian Having used it myself for quite a while, there was always a lot of people at both Houghton and Durham who would let the 20/20A go past, knowing the quicker X20 is due. In reality, it wasn't *that* much quicker, but the fact it's not stopping here, there and everywhere, makes it a more comfortable journey for commuters in my opinion.I agree I always got the X20 instead of the 20/20A a major thing aswell was that the 20/20A or the 20 at that point was always busy from Shields and the Citaros were much nicer overall than the Streetlites. I really miss the Citaros
I think an X20 could still play a part, if it was marketed properly alongside the 20/20A, and also provided a fast connection between Houghton and Sunderland.
(05 Aug 2023, 11:01 am)Adrian Having used it myself for quite a while, there was always a lot of people at both Houghton and Durham who would let the 20/20A go past, knowing the quicker X20 is due. In reality, it wasn't *that* much quicker, but the fact it's not stopping here, there and everywhere, makes it a more comfortable journey for commuters in my opinion.I agree I always got the X20 instead of the 20/20A a major thing aswell was that the 20/20A or the 20 at that point was always busy from Shields and the Citaros were much nicer overall than the Streetlites. I really miss the Citaros
I think an X20 could still play a part, if it was marketed properly alongside the 20/20A, and also provided a fast connection between Houghton and Sunderland.
imo the 20/20A/35/X20 corridor should all be swapped around so you'd have something like
X20: Durham - NON STOP - West Rainton (Chantry Place) - NON STOP - Houghton Le Spring - Doxford Park - Board Inn - NON STOP - Sunderland
X20A: Low Moorsley - Hetton - Gillas Lane - Houghton Le Spring - Doxford Park - Board Inn - NON STOP - Sunderland
20: Durham - Bowburn - West Rainton - Middle Rainton - Gillas Lane - Houghton Le Spring - Newbottle - Herringtons - Board Inn - A690 - Hospital - Sunderland
20A: Durham - Bowburn - West Rainton - Middle Rainton - Rainton Business Park - Houghton Le Spring - Newbottle - Herringtons - Board Inn - A690 - Hospital - Sunderland
X20/X20A: Sunderland to Houghton, Every 15 Minutes Combined
20/20A: Durham to Sunderland, Every 15 Minutes Combined
35: Withdrawn South of Sunderland
39(?): Withdrawn Doxford Park to Houghton Le Spring
Would open all sorts of links and give Hetton etc a quicker route to Sunderland than a detour around the world especially with the number of houses being built around the Herringtons with an appalling service.
Quick diagram to explain better below (pinks are the expresses, green are the slows, arrows point at the express sections).
(05 Aug 2023, 11:46 am)Storx imo the 20/20A/35/X20 corridor should all be swapped around so you'd have something like
X20: Durham - NON STOP - West Rainton (Chantry Place) - NON STOP - Houghton Le Spring - Doxford Park - Board Inn - NON STOP - Sunderland
X20A: Low Moorsley - Hetton - Gillas Lane - Houghton Le Spring - Doxford Park - Board Inn - NON STOP - Sunderland
20: Durham - Bowburn - West Rainton - Middle Rainton - Gillas Lane - Houghton Le Spring - Newbottle - Herringtons - Board Inn - A690 - Hospital - Sunderland
20A: Durham - Bowburn - West Rainton - Middle Rainton - Rainton Business Park - Houghton Le Spring - Newbottle - Herringtons - Board Inn - A690 - Hospital - Sunderland
X20/X20A: Sunderland to Houghton, Every 15 Minutes Combined
20/20A: Durham to Sunderland, Every 15 Minutes Combined
35: Withdrawn South of Sunderland
39(?): Withdrawn Doxford Park to Houghton Le Spring
Would open all sorts of links and give Hetton etc a quicker route to Sunderland than a detour around the world especially with the number of houses being built around the Herringtons with an appalling service.
Quick diagram to explain better below (pinks are the expresses, green are the slows, arrows point at the express sections).
(05 Aug 2023, 11:46 am)Storx imo the 20/20A/35/X20 corridor should all be swapped around so you'd have something like
X20: Durham - NON STOP - West Rainton (Chantry Place) - NON STOP - Houghton Le Spring - Doxford Park - Board Inn - NON STOP - Sunderland
X20A: Low Moorsley - Hetton - Gillas Lane - Houghton Le Spring - Doxford Park - Board Inn - NON STOP - Sunderland
20: Durham - Bowburn - West Rainton - Middle Rainton - Gillas Lane - Houghton Le Spring - Newbottle - Herringtons - Board Inn - A690 - Hospital - Sunderland
20A: Durham - Bowburn - West Rainton - Middle Rainton - Rainton Business Park - Houghton Le Spring - Newbottle - Herringtons - Board Inn - A690 - Hospital - Sunderland
X20/X20A: Sunderland to Houghton, Every 15 Minutes Combined
20/20A: Durham to Sunderland, Every 15 Minutes Combined
35: Withdrawn South of Sunderland
39(?): Withdrawn Doxford Park to Houghton Le Spring
Would open all sorts of links and give Hetton etc a quicker route to Sunderland than a detour around the world especially with the number of houses being built around the Herringtons with an appalling service.
Quick diagram to explain better below (pinks are the expresses, green are the slows, arrows point at the express sections).
(05 Aug 2023, 11:59 am)Andreos1 Don't forget the new road which will go from Chester Road in Barnwell, all the way through to where the old Phili Depot was.
It would be folly of any operator to ignore a quicker and improved link between Barnwell and Houghton, given the houses being built there and the supermarket developments on the old Houghton Colliery site.
(05 Aug 2023, 11:59 am)Andreos1 Don't forget the new road which will go from Chester Road in Barnwell, all the way through to where the old Phili Depot was.
It would be folly of any operator to ignore a quicker and improved link between Barnwell and Houghton, given the houses being built there and the supermarket developments on the old Houghton Colliery site.
(05 Aug 2023, 12:10 pm)Storx Didn't even realise that would was getting built, even better for that 20/20A suggestion then. Sure the half hourly 35, 15 minute walk away will be good enough though.
Buses around are that are generally poor though unless you happen to live on the X1 corridor, reminds me of another area (Birtley).
Nexus stated that discussions have already taken place with the Applicant, and they are satisfied that the proposed bus stop infrastructure improvements and the introduction of new bus stop locations within the development site will help to increase the amenity and comfort of residents and employees on the development site. The development, along with the construction of the new link road would alter the entire dynamic of travel patterns within the area and as a consequence Nexus has agreed that strategic reviews of public transport demand and secured bus services will take place at key intervals during the delivery phase (in particular once the link road has been completed). Discussions have taken place between Nexus and the Applicant regarding the potential to redirect secured bus services through the new link road. This option would depend on the propensity of commercial operators to serve the development. In this respect Nexus have stated that Go North East have been involved in these discussions and have indicated that there is potential to serve the development commercially, depending on demand and occupancy levels (there may not be sufficient demand during the early phases to warrant a commercial service but the existence of the link road would provide an attractive routing option for some services heading from and towards the Sunderland area). Nexus also commented on the content of travel plans that they should include provision for offering incentives to residents, employer and employees to encourage the use of public transport options. Finally, the road works (roundabout construction and traffic signal and junction works) which will take place on Philadelphia Lane and the B1286 will inevitably result in some disruption to the normal flow of traffic in the area and as such Nexus have stated that they must be informed at the earliest opportunity of the nature and timescales of any works along with arrangements for mitigation and traffic control.
(05 Aug 2023, 12:10 pm)Storx Didn't even realise that would was getting built, even better for that 20/20A suggestion then. Sure the half hourly 35, 15 minute walk away will be good enough though.
Buses around are that are generally poor though unless you happen to live on the X1 corridor, reminds me of another area (Birtley).
Nexus stated that discussions have already taken place with the Applicant, and they are satisfied that the proposed bus stop infrastructure improvements and the introduction of new bus stop locations within the development site will help to increase the amenity and comfort of residents and employees on the development site. The development, along with the construction of the new link road would alter the entire dynamic of travel patterns within the area and as a consequence Nexus has agreed that strategic reviews of public transport demand and secured bus services will take place at key intervals during the delivery phase (in particular once the link road has been completed). Discussions have taken place between Nexus and the Applicant regarding the potential to redirect secured bus services through the new link road. This option would depend on the propensity of commercial operators to serve the development. In this respect Nexus have stated that Go North East have been involved in these discussions and have indicated that there is potential to serve the development commercially, depending on demand and occupancy levels (there may not be sufficient demand during the early phases to warrant a commercial service but the existence of the link road would provide an attractive routing option for some services heading from and towards the Sunderland area). Nexus also commented on the content of travel plans that they should include provision for offering incentives to residents, employer and employees to encourage the use of public transport options. Finally, the road works (roundabout construction and traffic signal and junction works) which will take place on Philadelphia Lane and the B1286 will inevitably result in some disruption to the normal flow of traffic in the area and as such Nexus have stated that they must be informed at the earliest opportunity of the nature and timescales of any works along with arrangements for mitigation and traffic control.
(05 Aug 2023, 1:15 pm)Andreos1 And because of the existing road infrastructure around there, a load of additional housing and retail will do nowt to help the reliability of the existing services in the area.I definitely think a PVR increase on the X1/2/2A is definitely needed
The 2, 78, X1 and 35 will be absolutely hammered (more so than they are now), particularly during peaks because they inevitably won't meet the needs of the thousands of people moving to Barnwell, Philip and Herrington.
The operators need to be pro-active here. It's a huge opportunity for them to build a commercial network and offer alternatives to the car in that particular area.
Alas... I think we all know what will happen.
https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/2...velopment/
https://www.taylorwimpey.co.uk/new-homes...ngton-view
https://www.persimmonhomes.com/new-homes...ton-grange
https://committees.sunderland.gov.uk/com...%2Bg%3D%3D&rUzwRPf%2BZ3zd4E7Ikn8Lyw%3D%3D=pwRE6AGJFLDNlh225F5QMaQWCtPHwdhUfCZ%2FLUQzgA2uL5jNRG4jdQ%3D%3D&mCTIbCubSFfXsDGW9IXnlg%3D%3D=hFflUdN3100%3D&kCx1AnS9%2FpWZQ40DXFvdEw%3D%3D=hFflUdN3100%3D&uJovDxwdjMPoYv%2BAJvYtyA%3D%3D=ctNJFf55vVA%3D&FgPlIEJYlotS%2BYGoBi5olA%3D%3D=NHdURQburHA%3D&d9Qjj0ag1Pd993jsyOJqFvmyB7X0CSQK=ctNJFf55vVA%3D&WGewmoAfeNR9xqBux0r1Q8Za60lavYmz=ctNJFf55vVA%3D&WGewmoAfeNQ16B2MHuCpMRKZMwaG1PaO=ctNJFf55vVA%3D
Interesting comments from Nexus in the final link:
(05 Aug 2023, 1:15 pm)Andreos1 And because of the existing road infrastructure around there, a load of additional housing and retail will do nowt to help the reliability of the existing services in the area.I definitely think a PVR increase on the X1/2/2A is definitely needed
The 2, 78, X1 and 35 will be absolutely hammered (more so than they are now), particularly during peaks because they inevitably won't meet the needs of the thousands of people moving to Barnwell, Philip and Herrington.
The operators need to be pro-active here. It's a huge opportunity for them to build a commercial network and offer alternatives to the car in that particular area.
Alas... I think we all know what will happen.
https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/2...velopment/
https://www.taylorwimpey.co.uk/new-homes...ngton-view
https://www.persimmonhomes.com/new-homes...ton-grange
https://committees.sunderland.gov.uk/com...%2Bg%3D%3D&rUzwRPf%2BZ3zd4E7Ikn8Lyw%3D%3D=pwRE6AGJFLDNlh225F5QMaQWCtPHwdhUfCZ%2FLUQzgA2uL5jNRG4jdQ%3D%3D&mCTIbCubSFfXsDGW9IXnlg%3D%3D=hFflUdN3100%3D&kCx1AnS9%2FpWZQ40DXFvdEw%3D%3D=hFflUdN3100%3D&uJovDxwdjMPoYv%2BAJvYtyA%3D%3D=ctNJFf55vVA%3D&FgPlIEJYlotS%2BYGoBi5olA%3D%3D=NHdURQburHA%3D&d9Qjj0ag1Pd993jsyOJqFvmyB7X0CSQK=ctNJFf55vVA%3D&WGewmoAfeNR9xqBux0r1Q8Za60lavYmz=ctNJFf55vVA%3D&WGewmoAfeNQ16B2MHuCpMRKZMwaG1PaO=ctNJFf55vVA%3D
Interesting comments from Nexus in the final link:
(05 Aug 2023, 1:15 pm)Andreos1 And because of the existing road infrastructure around there, a load of additional housing and retail will do nowt to help the reliability of the existing services in the area.
The 2, 78, X1 and 35 will be absolutely hammered (more so than they are now), particularly during peaks because they inevitably won't meet the needs of the thousands of people moving to Barnwell, Philip and Herrington.
The operators need to be pro-active here. It's a huge opportunity for them to build a commercial network and offer alternatives to the car in that particular area.
Alas... I think we all know what will happen.
https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/2...velopment/
https://www.taylorwimpey.co.uk/new-homes...ngton-view
https://www.persimmonhomes.com/new-homes...ton-grange
https://committees.sunderland.gov.uk/com...%2Bg%3D%3D&rUzwRPf%2BZ3zd4E7Ikn8Lyw%3D%3D=pwRE6AGJFLDNlh225F5QMaQWCtPHwdhUfCZ%2FLUQzgA2uL5jNRG4jdQ%3D%3D&mCTIbCubSFfXsDGW9IXnlg%3D%3D=hFflUdN3100%3D&kCx1AnS9%2FpWZQ40DXFvdEw%3D%3D=hFflUdN3100%3D&uJovDxwdjMPoYv%2BAJvYtyA%3D%3D=ctNJFf55vVA%3D&FgPlIEJYlotS%2BYGoBi5olA%3D%3D=NHdURQburHA%3D&d9Qjj0ag1Pd993jsyOJqFvmyB7X0CSQK=ctNJFf55vVA%3D&WGewmoAfeNR9xqBux0r1Q8Za60lavYmz=ctNJFf55vVA%3D&WGewmoAfeNQ16B2MHuCpMRKZMwaG1PaO=ctNJFf55vVA%3D
Interesting comments from Nexus in the final link:
(05 Aug 2023, 1:15 pm)Andreos1 And because of the existing road infrastructure around there, a load of additional housing and retail will do nowt to help the reliability of the existing services in the area.
The 2, 78, X1 and 35 will be absolutely hammered (more so than they are now), particularly during peaks because they inevitably won't meet the needs of the thousands of people moving to Barnwell, Philip and Herrington.
The operators need to be pro-active here. It's a huge opportunity for them to build a commercial network and offer alternatives to the car in that particular area.
Alas... I think we all know what will happen.
https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/2...velopment/
https://www.taylorwimpey.co.uk/new-homes...ngton-view
https://www.persimmonhomes.com/new-homes...ton-grange
https://committees.sunderland.gov.uk/com...%2Bg%3D%3D&rUzwRPf%2BZ3zd4E7Ikn8Lyw%3D%3D=pwRE6AGJFLDNlh225F5QMaQWCtPHwdhUfCZ%2FLUQzgA2uL5jNRG4jdQ%3D%3D&mCTIbCubSFfXsDGW9IXnlg%3D%3D=hFflUdN3100%3D&kCx1AnS9%2FpWZQ40DXFvdEw%3D%3D=hFflUdN3100%3D&uJovDxwdjMPoYv%2BAJvYtyA%3D%3D=ctNJFf55vVA%3D&FgPlIEJYlotS%2BYGoBi5olA%3D%3D=NHdURQburHA%3D&d9Qjj0ag1Pd993jsyOJqFvmyB7X0CSQK=ctNJFf55vVA%3D&WGewmoAfeNR9xqBux0r1Q8Za60lavYmz=ctNJFf55vVA%3D&WGewmoAfeNQ16B2MHuCpMRKZMwaG1PaO=ctNJFf55vVA%3D
Interesting comments from Nexus in the final link:
(05 Aug 2023, 1:53 pm)Unber43 I definitely think a PVR increase on the X1/2/2A is definitely needed
(05 Aug 2023, 1:53 pm)Unber43 I definitely think a PVR increase on the X1/2/2A is definitely needed
(05 Aug 2023, 3:14 pm)Malarkey I'd re-introduce the X2 and have it run limited stop from Sunderland via Penshaw, Washington Galleries, Springwell, Wrekenton, Q.E. Hospital and Gateshead Interchange to Newcastle.
Another suggestion I'd like to make in regards to going through Gateshead for the likes of the 21/27/28/28/56/57/58/X1/X21, rather than serve the Interchange going into Newcastle why not serve High Street and then head straight over the Tyne Bridge which would shave off several minutes thus speeding up journey's and have them serve the Interchange only on the return, it would also reduce costs on the fees GNE pay Nexus to use the Interchange over using High Street which would cost significantly less.
Also for the "Express Services" I'd have them run around the Central Motorway and come in via Barrass Bridge with a potential stop replacing St.Mary's Place here often traffic can get congested around John Dobson Street more so now with the major building developments ongoing thus impacting reliability, coming back over from Newcastle I'd only have them stop at High Level Bridge and would for the X21/X71/X72 I would drop stopping at Wilkinson's/The Gate as time is added for stopping/hitting traffic lights then navigating down Bigg Market and can be a pain also due to traffic blocking the yellow box coming/to from Central Station.
In terms of putting service back to original frequency and an improvement for reliability I would say the 53/54 needs to be looked at as this now my local service having recently moved house I have found boards of these services being cancelled, particularly the very early morning runs which on a number of occasions has led to me either going down onto Teams for the 6/10's into Newcastle or going via Gateshead and getting the Metro through to work.
(05 Aug 2023, 3:14 pm)Malarkey I'd re-introduce the X2 and have it run limited stop from Sunderland via Penshaw, Washington Galleries, Springwell, Wrekenton, Q.E. Hospital and Gateshead Interchange to Newcastle.
Another suggestion I'd like to make in regards to going through Gateshead for the likes of the 21/27/28/28/56/57/58/X1/X21, rather than serve the Interchange going into Newcastle why not serve High Street and then head straight over the Tyne Bridge which would shave off several minutes thus speeding up journey's and have them serve the Interchange only on the return, it would also reduce costs on the fees GNE pay Nexus to use the Interchange over using High Street which would cost significantly less.
Also for the "Express Services" I'd have them run around the Central Motorway and come in via Barrass Bridge with a potential stop replacing St.Mary's Place here often traffic can get congested around John Dobson Street more so now with the major building developments ongoing thus impacting reliability, coming back over from Newcastle I'd only have them stop at High Level Bridge and would for the X21/X71/X72 I would drop stopping at Wilkinson's/The Gate as time is added for stopping/hitting traffic lights then navigating down Bigg Market and can be a pain also due to traffic blocking the yellow box coming/to from Central Station.
In terms of putting service back to original frequency and an improvement for reliability I would say the 53/54 needs to be looked at as this now my local service having recently moved house I have found boards of these services being cancelled, particularly the very early morning runs which on a number of occasions has led to me either going down onto Teams for the 6/10's into Newcastle or going via Gateshead and getting the Metro through to work.
(05 Aug 2023, 3:13 pm)Storx Aye totally agreed the roads are bad enough around there specially at Shiny Row. Mind least they're actually being pro active at least with installing bus stops for once. Makes a change to other areas where it's just clearly an after though.
(05 Aug 2023, 3:13 pm)Storx Aye totally agreed the roads are bad enough around there specially at Shiny Row. Mind least they're actually being pro active at least with installing bus stops for once. Makes a change to other areas where it's just clearly an after though.
(05 Aug 2023, 4:04 pm)Andreos1 Installing bus stops will mean absolutely bot all if the service doesn't take people where they want to go though.
That's key to all of this.
The developers talk about road infrastructure and how close they are to key employment locations.
Yet there's GNE essentially saying they're going to divert an existing bus via the new road to/from Sunderland.
I can guarantee that's not where the majority of those people studying, working or whatever else need or want to be.
We've talked about missed opportunities and how operators aren't ambitious or even switched on enough to see what's actually in front of them many a time.
This looks like it could be another example of that unfortunately.
It's just a lot more difficult for them to argue for a bus lane on the A182 or A183 with a boat load of terraced houses in the way. I'm sure it won't stop them asking.
(05 Aug 2023, 4:04 pm)Andreos1 Installing bus stops will mean absolutely bot all if the service doesn't take people where they want to go though.
That's key to all of this.
The developers talk about road infrastructure and how close they are to key employment locations.
Yet there's GNE essentially saying they're going to divert an existing bus via the new road to/from Sunderland.
I can guarantee that's not where the majority of those people studying, working or whatever else need or want to be.
We've talked about missed opportunities and how operators aren't ambitious or even switched on enough to see what's actually in front of them many a time.
This looks like it could be another example of that unfortunately.
It's just a lot more difficult for them to argue for a bus lane on the A182 or A183 with a boat load of terraced houses in the way. I'm sure it won't stop them asking.
They need to bring back 55 so then people wouldn't have to get multiple buses to interchange from the lane
I mean it's always a possibility but seeing as Riverside are still facing daily cancellations I can't see it happening quite yet.
(14 Aug 2023, 6:10 pm)j986986 From Twitter today.TBH why GNE have increased a few frequencies back, I wouldn't be surprised if they just said this for the crack. Like they probably do have an idea about which services they want to increase the frequency off.
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