I was looking for an older X-Lines thread so I could post this but since there is not, I'm making this new one for this question. I'm curious to know if X-Lines is very slowly coming to an end?
I seen a video of the X1 now being referred to the X1 now instead of X-Lines X1 and a photo of the X45 with the "GNE Red" branding on the interior screens.

With the current X-Lines that remain (that I'm aware of) X10/20/21/30/31/32/70/71/73. I haven't seen any updates on the X5/X15 for a while so I don't know if its still announced as the XLines X5/X15 or just the X5/X15 but It seems that the recent Streetdeck Ultroliner investments have obviously caused a shift with the X-Lines routes causing a big switch around of vehicles like the 2020 XLines Red Streetdecks off to Deptford and possible other movements such as the XLines Purple X10's moving to Consett (from what I've seen on threads here) so that will bin off the Purple XLines.

Then with the X20 joining up with the 65 I could see that being referred to the Prince Bishops X20 in the future so that will bin off the Pink/Blue XLines.
I don't know what the plans are with the X21. Whether that the Light Green Streetdecks remain or that the new Streetdecks will be a thing on it.

I highly doubt the X5/X15 (Yellow) will ever regain its branding unless some wild plan is in place to turn the Purple MMC's into Yellow.

So with that concluded from what is properly set to remain is the Dark Green Consett & Stanley XLines corridor and with how that gets allocated with a few Streetlites/200MMC's making cameos on the routes I wouldn't be surprised if that eventually causes the Dark Green network to then also be binned off.


Sorry for the waffle on but I was just curious to know if one of GNE's "Premium" brands is coming to an end.

(Yesterday, 5:34 pm)X919 WGR wrote I was looking for an older X-Lines thread so I could post this but since there is not, I'm making this new one for this question. I'm curious to know if X-Lines is very slowly coming to an end?
I seen a video of the X1 now being referred to the X1 now instead of X-Lines X1 and a photo of the X45 with the "GNE Red" branding on the interior screens.

With the current X-Lines that remain (that I'm aware of) X10/20/21/30/31/32/70/71/73. I haven't seen any updates on the X5/X15 for a while so I don't know if its still announced as the XLines X5/X15 or just the X5/X15 but It seems that the recent Streetdeck Ultroliner investments have obviously caused a shift with the X-Lines routes causing a big switch around of vehicles like the 2020 XLines Red Streetdecks off to Deptford and possible other movements such as the XLines Purple X10's moving to Consett (from what I've seen on threads here) so that will bin off the Purple XLines.

Then with the X20 joining up with the 65 I could see that being referred to the Prince Bishops X20 in the future so that will bin off the Pink/Blue XLines.
I don't know what the plans are with the X21. Whether that the Light Green Streetdecks remain or that the new Streetdecks will be a thing on it.

I highly doubt the X5/X15 (Yellow) will ever regain its branding unless some wild plan is in place to turn the Purple MMC's into Yellow.

So with that concluded from what is properly set to remain is the Dark Green Consett & Stanley XLines corridor and with how that gets allocated with a few Streetlites/200MMC's making cameos on the routes I wouldn't be surprised if that eventually causes the Dark Green network to then also be binned off.


Sorry for the waffle on but I was just curious to know if one of GNE's "Premium" brands is coming to an end.

Service 65 is no longer part of the Prince Bishops, so the X20 won't be part of the branding either

The announcements on the X45 now announce it as 'this is the X45 service to Newcastle' on the new streetdecks. As opposed to everything else still referring it to 'Xlines'. The X15 still oddly is referred to as Xlines despite not having any branded buses on it for a long time. I feel Xlines has become another Arriva MAX.

(Yesterday, 11:10 pm)TheClumsyPineapple wrote The announcements on the X45 now announce it as 'this is the X45 service to Newcastle' on the new streetdecks. As opposed to everything else still referring it to 'Xlines'. The X15 still oddly is referred to as Xlines despite not having any branded buses on it for a long time. I feel Xlines has become another Arriva MAX.

It's as though the penny has finally dropped. 
Titivations and paint jobs don't attract passengers. 

On a personal level, I see a route with an X prefix and then a promotional/branded livery - I expect that route to be fast.
Using the X1 as an example, it's slower than the X5 was 20/30 years ago.

It could be argued that's because there's more cars on the road. It could be argued its because it stops in more places. 
Either way, having more stops and it being slower - contradicts the impression or expectation it's fast.
And in turn, leaves passengers disappointed when it's not fast. Probably pushing them towards the car, which slows the bus down/encourages it to call at more stops in a bid to attract passengers etc etc.

(8 hours ago)Andreos1 wrote It's as though the penny has finally dropped. 
Titivations and paint jobs don't attract passengers. 

On a personal level, I see a route with an X prefix and then a promotional/branded livery - I expect that route to be fast.
Using the X1 as an example, it's slower than the X5 was 20/30 years ago.

It could be argued that's because there's more cars on the road. It could be argued its because it stops in more places. 
Either way, having more stops and it being slower - contradicts the impression or expectation it's fast.
And in turn, leaves passengers disappointed when it's not fast. Probably pushing them towards the car, which slows the bus down/encourages it to call at more stops in a bid to attract passengers etc etc.

It's an odd one really, because to some extent I do believe X-Lines branding has a more premium feel and in most cases was applied to brand new vehicles so might have had some impact on attracting new passengers. 

However I would agree that choosing X- and giving the image of it being some sort of express network is false advertising for a lot of the services. Similarly, I think in the same vain as Arriva's MAX some of the features on these vehicles were considered premium at one point, when in reality it just sets a precedent as to what all vehicles should be like - why should my bus get a clapped out old banger with grotty seats when yours has nice new leather seats and isn't freezing in winter and boiling in summer. 

Go North East obviously has a history of branding but the network has been chopped and changed and brands relaunched and revamped so many times the past few years in particular, a lot of them have lost all meaning. I'd say the only ones that still have value are Angel, Crusader, Coaster and Prince Bishops. The likes of your Country Ranger and Connections 4 need to/are going and to me Voltra is making the same mistake all over again - I actually think something similar to Arriva's Hybrid Livery, standard livery with a bit of green on is more effective. Your average bus person seeing a Voltra would think hmm never heard of them it's not Go North East or Arriva (unless they take time to read the small print saying brought to you by Go North East.)

Despite all that said I don't really take issue with some or all of GNE's strategic/core routes having a specialised brand in principle. But I think they should have committed to one X-Lines-style brand for them all so not just current X-Lines but the 10, 309, 47, 56 etc as well - with a unified name maybe something relating to Newcastle or Cities or something. Having said that, branding does lead to operational issues as soon as PVR's and routes change.

We're in a world now where buses are moving towards this idea of every bus in an area being the same colour. And I do think for a non-bus user loads of different colours does make things more confusing. At this point I think the quicker they repaint all the X-Lines into standard livery, or even the odd individual route brand, the better!

(7 hours ago)peter wrote It's an odd one really, because to some extent I do believe X-Lines branding has a more premium feel and in most cases was applied to brand new vehicles so might have had some impact on attracting new passengers. 

However I would agree that choosing X- and giving the image of it being some sort of express network is false advertising for a lot of the services. Similarly, I think in the same vain as Arriva's MAX some of the features on these vehicles were considered premium at one point, when in reality it just sets a precedent as to what all vehicles should be like - why should my bus get a clapped out old banger with grotty seats when yours has nice new leather seats and isn't freezing in winter and boiling in summer. 

Go North East obviously has a history of branding but the network has been chopped and changed and brands relaunched and revamped so many times the past few years in particular, a lot of them have lost all meaning. I'd say the only ones that still have value are Angel, Crusader, Coaster and Prince Bishops. The likes of your Country Ranger and Connections 4 need to/are going and to me Voltra is making the same mistake all over again - I actually think something similar to Arriva's Hybrid Livery, standard livery with a bit of green on is more effective. Your average bus person seeing a Voltra would think hmm never heard of them it's not Go North East or Arriva (unless they take time to read the small print saying brought to you by Go North East.)

Despite all that said I don't really take issue with some or all of GNE's strategic/core routes having a specialised brand in principle. But I think they should have committed to one X-Lines-style brand for them all so not just current X-Lines but the 10, 309, 47, 56 etc as well - with a unified name maybe something relating to Newcastle or Cities or something. Having said that, branding does lead to operational issues as soon as PVR's and routes change.

We're in a world now where buses are moving towards this idea of every bus in an area being the same colour. And I do think for a non-bus user loads of different colours does make things more confusing. At this point I think the quicker they repaint all the X-Lines into standard livery, or even the odd individual route brand, the better!

See I think branding on specific routes as one big brand is a waste of time unless it's marking out the difference between interurban and urban routes which have different features. 

Branding a big group of routes as much as it promotes those routes just promotes a two tier structure. 

For all the positives of say branding up the X1 as a premium service, what does that make the 4 - a crap service? 

Just stop pissing around and refurbish everything imo and have some pride. Also for GNE case keep one interior. There must be at least 10 different interiors running around right now.

(6 hours ago)Storx wrote See I think branding on specific routes as one big brand is a waste of time unless it's marking out the difference between interurban and urban routes which have different features. 

Branding a big group of routes as much as it promotes those routes just promotes a two tier structure. 

For all the positives of say branding up the X1 as a premium service, what does that make the 4 - a crap service? 

Just stop pissing around and refurbish everything imo and have some pride. Also for GNE case keep one interior. There must be at least 10 different interiors running around right now.

But that's in essence what all the X-Lines and most of remaining branded routes are - interurban routes between Newcastle, Durham, Sunderland and other key population centres. It's like the difference between Transpennine Express and Northern. 

The X1 and 4 the do different things, the 4 while more strategic than a local service weaves around different places, the X1 pretty much follows a straight line and is 'express' for about half of the route. 

There's no way they can refurbish everything tho - there will always be some routes that don't make as much money and thus don't receive the newest vehicles. Unless you replace every vehicle in the fleet all at once there will always be an oldest bus in the fleet and it has to do something (excluding scholars). 

If the interurban routes are more profitable, get the newer vehicles and are perhaps more-so competing against the private car then I find no issue trying to shout about it. 

The new streetdecks on the X1 or X45 being in a 'standard GNE livery' works both ways. Because they look exactly the same as every other GNE bus, if the last decker you happened to go on in that livery was an ex-London shed, you're gonna think well what's the difference I'm not getting on that bus either. In an ideal world there wouldn't be any sheds, but are you gonna refurb a 15-year old decker for say the 643/644, no, it's still a business at the end of the day and there's no business case for that - those local or more 'socially necessary' services that are less profitable are just that, less profitable, and are always gonna run with the oldest or less high-quality stock. Alternatively if you do find yourself on a GNE livery X1 then you might think oh wow every red GNE bus is this good not just the gold X-Line ones - but if they're no more attractive or enticing than your car or any other GNE bus why would you be drawn to get out your car and on it in the first place.

For people who have no other option but to use the bus, all this X-Lines branding and fancy features means nothing really - it's a bonus and a nice to have that your journey is more pleasant, but if you need to use that service regardless the operator could send anything and it wouldn't really matter you'd have to put up with it (within reason of course to the point where they don't force you off the bus and in your car) - but fundamentally it's less about retaining existing patronage, the X-Lines initiative is more of a marketing exercise to increase passenger numbers, by promoting it is a premium service on longer distance journeys. I think if they had been more precise with its execution it could have been a bigger success.

(5 hours ago)peter wrote But that's in essence what all the X-Lines and most of remaining branded routes are - interurban routes between Newcastle, Durham, Sunderland and other key population centres. It's like the difference between Transpennine Express and Northern. 

The X1 and 4 the do different things, the 4 while more strategic than a local service weaves around different places, the X1 pretty much follows a straight line and is 'express' for about half of the route. 

There's no way they can refurbish everything tho - there will always be some routes that don't make as much money and thus don't receive the newest vehicles. Unless you replace every vehicle in the fleet all at once there will always be an oldest bus in the fleet and it has to do something (excluding scholars). 

If the interurban routes are more profitable, get the newer vehicles and are perhaps more-so competing against the private car then I find no issue trying to shout about it. 

The new streetdecks on the X1 or X45 being in a 'standard GNE livery' works both ways. Because they look exactly the same as every other GNE bus, if the last decker you happened to go on in that livery was an ex-London shed, you're gonna think well what's the difference I'm not getting on that bus either. In an ideal world there wouldn't be any sheds, but are you gonna refurb a 15-year old decker for say the 643/644, no, it's still a business at the end of the day and there's no business case for that - those local or more 'socially necessary' services that are less profitable are just that, less profitable, and are always gonna run with the oldest or less high-quality stock. Alternatively if you do find yourself on a GNE livery X1 then you might think oh wow every red GNE bus is this good not just the gold X-Line ones - but if they're no more attractive or enticing than your car or any other GNE bus why would you be drawn to get out your car and on it in the first place.

For people who have no other option but to use the bus, all this X-Lines branding and fancy features means nothing really - it's a bonus and a nice to have that your journey is more pleasant, but if you need to use that service regardless the operator could send anything and it wouldn't really matter you'd have to put up with it (within reason of course to the point where they don't force you off the bus and in your car) - but fundamentally it's less about retaining existing patronage, the X-Lines initiative is more of a marketing exercise to increase passenger numbers, by promoting it is a premium service on longer distance journeys. I think if they had been more precise with its execution it could have been a bigger success.

I know the root cause is mainly down to the users, but some of the seatbacks on the Xline doubles are absolutely disgusting. They've not been maintained or cleaned - I imagine since launch.

Compare to Trent Barton Red Arrow, which is spotless every time you get on!

(5 hours ago)peter wrote But that's in essence what all the X-Lines and most of remaining branded routes are - interurban routes between Newcastle, Durham, Sunderland and other key population centres. It's like the difference between Transpennine Express and Northern. 

The X1 and 4 the do different things, the 4 while more strategic than a local service weaves around different places, the X1 pretty much follows a straight line and is 'express' for about half of the route. 

There's no way they can refurbish everything tho - there will always be some routes that don't make as much money and thus don't receive the newest vehicles. Unless you replace every vehicle in the fleet all at once there will always be an oldest bus in the fleet and it has to do something (excluding scholars). 

If the interurban routes are more profitable, get the newer vehicles and are perhaps more-so competing against the private car then I find no issue trying to shout about it. 

The new streetdecks on the X1 or X45 being in a 'standard GNE livery' works both ways. Because they look exactly the same as every other GNE bus, if the last decker you happened to go on in that livery was an ex-London shed, you're gonna think well what's the difference I'm not getting on that bus either. In an ideal world there wouldn't be any sheds, but are you gonna refurb a 15-year old decker for say the 643/644, no, it's still a business at the end of the day and there's no business case for that - those local or more 'socially necessary' services that are less profitable are just that, less profitable, and are always gonna run with the oldest or less high-quality stock. Alternatively if you do find yourself on a GNE livery X1 then you might think oh wow every red GNE bus is this good not just the gold X-Line ones - but if they're no more attractive or enticing than your car or any other GNE bus why would you be drawn to get out your car and on it in the first place.

For people who have no other option but to use the bus, all this X-Lines branding and fancy features means nothing really - it's a bonus and a nice to have that your journey is more pleasant, but if you need to use that service regardless the operator could send anything and it wouldn't really matter you'd have to put up with it (within reason of course to the point where they don't force you off the bus and in your car) - but fundamentally it's less about retaining existing patronage, the X-Lines initiative is more of a marketing exercise to increase passenger numbers, by promoting it is a premium service on longer distance journeys. I think if they had been more precise with its execution it could have been a bigger success.

Aye no arguments about refurbishing really old stuff, but there's a lot of the fleet which I'd argue is up for it. 

Like you could make the case the 15/16/66/17 Plate Streetlite's could get done, all the Streetdeck's including the 70 Plates and then the E400MMC's aswell. You've done the vast majority of the fleet then and the ones which haven't been done will likely be going out of service before long then anyway.

If you don't change the interior (again) then you remove the tiers. Wellglade down in the Derby area is really good for this 

Personally if I was GoNorthEast, I'd keep the new livery which is used on the 75 Plates and only repaint any vehicles which have had a full refurbishment into it and start transforming the existing fleet. The first vehicles being the ex Angel deckers, and anything currently X Lines since like you said they're the important routes. Then move onto stuff like the 20 generally moving over the fleet. I understand it'd take a few years to do but that's life. 

GoNorthEast ditching the brands is new though, this is a company that's had a million brands so to a punter the X Lines - oh another one...?

What they shouldn't do (which they will do) is move the Angels and X1 Streetdeck's straight onto whatever they are going on as they're just 'old castoffs'. With a proper refurbishment, they could be 'new' buses.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/channel4sq...6227882341 - example of a Wellglade vehicle btw, looks pretty brand new today and it's 17 year old. The changing of headrests to suit the routes is a clever little move aswell as it's quite a cheap change and makes them a bit personalised imo.

Edit: Just to add same discussion for the London stock; they only look crap because they're not refurbished. Compare them to say Wright B7TL's which Arriva had and no-one could tell the difference as they had a full refurb. There's nothing wrong with London stock, it's just when it comes with blue lighting and GoAhead London interior where it's obvious.

(4 hours ago)Storx wrote Edit: Just to add same discussion for the London stock; they only look crap because they're not refurbished. Compare them to say Wright B7TL's which Arriva had and no-one could tell the difference as they had a full refurb. There's nothing wrong with London stock, it's just when it comes with blue lighting and GoAhead London interior where it's obvious.

I know they are not London Stock but It did show well when it came to the B5LH's going onto the X5/X15. They put the effort in to install the tables and the "Gold" headrests onto them and give them the Double Decker standard. Made them a bit more decent for when they debuted on the route.
Also goes the same to 6334/6335 the ex Demonstrator B5TL Gemini 3's. They were not the best on the inside and they just turned into a much newer looking bus.
Shame however when it came to the Citaros or the B5TL's they didnt go that extra mile to make it more worth the ride on the X20/X21. Even if it was just putting in the Moquetted Seats and Gold Headrests would of done it. It just looked like they just picked a set of "older" vehicles, slapped some interior branding on it with the Gold paint job and said that'll do.