(09 Nov 2025, 3:08 pm)L469 YVK wrote I think with a clean 10 minute headway between Rowlands Gill and Newcastle, some runs could get away with single deckers.

Likewise for the X70 - some getting away with singles and others needing deckers. But a more simple service with a better frequency will increase passenger numbers overtime.

There really is no demand at all for the X70. Its literally dead excluding the morning and evening peak. 
I politely disagree with single deckers as the entire corridor is busy on X45/47 deckers are needed for the route. As even from consett there are healthy loads. Single deckers make no sense for it as they're always rammed whenever singles are put on.

(09 Nov 2025, 4:34 pm)TheClumsyPineapple wrote There really is no demand at all for the X70. Its literally dead excluding the morning and evening peak. 
I politely disagree with single deckers as the entire corridor is busy on X45/47 deckers are needed for the route. As even from consett there are healthy loads. Single deckers make no sense for it as they're always rammed whenever singles are put on.

That's looking at the now. Before July 2022 minus the temporary changes, there was 4 direct buses per hour from Consett to Newcastle (X45/X46 or 45/46) via the MetroCentre. Now there's only two not counting the 47 as that goes around the world from Consett.

Also, the Rowlands Gill corridor has been cut from 6bph to 4bph. All the abobe mean that deckers are needed.

Going back to the X70 point. What is an hourly service going to do to attract growth?

If you look at the X70 half-hourly, Burnopfield to Newcastle via Sunniside and Gateshead can sustain itself, probably just above break even.

Yes Sykes, Tantobie, Dipton and Leadgate section would be at a loss to start with. But the 43/44/44A and 45/46/47/47A and X30/X31 would make more than enough to hold their own especially the 40's. These suggestions are a prime example of what BSIP should be for - creating useful services, links and encouraging growth - not propping up goldmines like the 21!

The bottom line is that with all the tinkering done around Derwentside - GNE aren't far off what they were PVR wise.

It's like when the X31/X32/X33 and initial X21/X22 were changed around in 2012 - the Ashington, Bedlington section of the X22 ran as a loss leader but got hammered and well used at Bedlington running 5 minutes ahead of the X21 due to the X21 going via Nedderton. Clean easy-peasy 20 (or 30) minute frequency, simple routings and both are still going fairly strong.

Northumbria got a massive reset especially in 2012 and few tweaks aside other than having to quit the 50's & 685 due to Jesmond closing - it's been fairly stable.

Derwentside needs a full reset IMO. It can be done as shown.

---

If you look at the X70 half-hourly, Burnopfield to Newcastle via Sunniside and Gateshead can sustain itself, probably just above break even.

Yes Sykes, Tantobie, Dipton and Leadgate section would be at a loss to start with. But the 43/44/44A and 45/46/47/47A and X30/X31 would make more than enough to hold their own especially the 40's. These suggestions are a prime example of what BSIP should be for - creating useful services, links and encouraging growth - not propping up goldmines like the 21!

The bottom line is that with all the tinkering done around Derwentside - GNE aren't far off what they were PVR wise.

It's like when the X31/X32/X33 and initial X21/X22 were changed around in 2012 - the Ashington to Bedlington section of the X22 ran as a loss leader but got hammered and well used at Bedlington running 5 minutes ahead of the X21 due to the X21 going via Nedderton. Clean easy-peasy 20 (or 30) minute frequency, simple routings and both are still going fairly strong and have grown.

Arriva Northumbria got a massive reset especially in 2012 and few tweaks aside other than having to quit the 50's & 685 due to Jesmond closing - it's been fairly stable.

Derwentside needs a full reset IMO. It can be done as shown.

(09 Nov 2025, 4:34 pm)TheClumsyPineapple wrote There really is no demand at all for the X70. Its literally dead excluding the morning and evening peak. 
I politely disagree with single deckers as the entire corridor is busy on X45/47 deckers are needed for the route. As even from consett there are healthy loads. Single deckers make no sense for it as they're always rammed whenever singles are put on.

Surely that's partially an advertising issue aswell though since the X45/X70/X71 are technically 4 BPH from Newcastle to Consett but people are avoiding the 70's. 

No doubt the X30/31/32/70/71/72/73 mess doesn't help things as unless you're good at timetables it's confusing. 

I wouldn't want to explain which one goes to Gateshead and which ones you can't use etc. 

Get rid of the X72/73 and send both the X70/X71 by Gateshead you've eliminated that issue. Not to mention Team Valley and Gateshead are places where people want to go unlike Whickham and Dunston but being hourly it's borderline unusable unless you like risks or can fix times which most people can't.

here,s a service suggestion..... winter tyres!

643/644 - Metrocentre ASDA - Metrocentre, Whickham, Fellside Park - Sunniside - Kibblesworth - Lamesley - Team Valley - Lobley Hill Estate - Whickham - MetroCentre - MetroCentre Asda

Current frequencies would be maintained with the service extended from Sunniside via Birkland Lane and Kibblesworth Bank to Kibblesworth then through Lamesley to serve the full stretch of Team Valley before doing a small loop of Lobley Hill before heading back towards Whickham and Sunniside to connect back onto existing routes to/from MetroCentre.

Smaller buses would be used i.e. Optare Solo SR's due to running along some narrow country roads and would likely better match service demand than having a Double Decker allocated to then run onto a Scholars later in the day.

I did have a thought of maybe having the 96 interwork the 643/644 using Midibuses or maybe one of 643/644 interworks with the 67. 

I'm just visiting a mate right now who's in Greenside but for all these suggestions the 10A must be the most frustrating bus route in the North East.

This really isn't usable for people from Rockwood Hill unless you have no choice.

It's pathetically slow. Literally could've got to York nearly quicker using trains from my place.

Would there be a market for any of the following:

A newcastle bound service from Nevilles Cross or further south operating direct to Framwellgate Moor via Whitesmocks.
Extend some 58's or a new faster service from Heworth to any combination of Monkton Lane/Hebburn/Lukes Lane/Jarrow.
Expresses between Washington & Sunderland.
Extending the X30, X31 or X32 to Lanchester. Both 6's would terminate at Stanley.
Buses from Crawcrook/Ryton/Stargate to Newcastle via Scotswood Road.
Some NCL-CLS 21's to operate via Park Road North & Picktree Lane.

Personally I think Kim needs to look at integrated ticketing like a transfare ticket used to be...

We used to have the amazing. 638 Sunderland to Crawcrook visited everywhere but the kitchen sink but was a vital service

USE these Secured services as a hopper service aka if you board a Nexus secured service you can transfer to a "quicker service at a connecting area FREE of charge" within 60 mins of the ticket purchase or 90 mins but a transfare must be asked to be validated

It means we can create services quicker

(7 hours ago)DaveFromUpNorth wrote Personally I think Kim needs to look at integrated ticketing like a transfare ticket used to be...

We used to have the amazing. 638  Sunderland to Crawcrook visited everywhere but the kitchen sink but was a vital service

USE these Secured services as a hopper service aka if you board a Nexus secured service you can transfer to a "quicker service  at a connecting area FREE of charge" within 60 mins of the ticket purchase or 90 mins but a transfare must be asked to be validated

It means we can create services quicker

Not going to lie, I think having some expresses around there wouldn't be the worst thing omitting the Metrocentre and serving the back end of Ryton.

Something like:
12: Every 30 Minutes - No Changes
12A: Hourly - https://www.google.com/maps/dir/54.95321...?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MTIwMi4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D
12B: Hourly - https://www.google.com/maps/dir/54.96132...?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MTIwMi4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

10: Every 30 Minutes (Not 36/24 like now)
10A: Every Hour omitting The Folly (Not 36/24 like now)
10B: Every Hour

R2: Withdrawn

10/10A/10B: Every 15 Minutes, Crawcrook to Newcastle via Metrocentre
12/12A/12B: Every 15 Minutes, Blaydon to Newcastle via Scotswood Road
10/10B/12B: 4 BPH from Prudhoe 
10A/12A: 2 BPH from Greenside (they're uneven anyway).
12A/12B: Every 30 Minutes from Woodside Lane to Newcastle Express

Those two routes would be game changers imo, the 12B partially being the old 604 anyway. It also means you've got a nice 4 BPH express from Blaydon if you fancied some hoppers. It's crazy the new massive housing estates around there have no bus service bar the useless R2 regardless.

(7 hours ago)DaveFromUpNorth wrote Personally I think Kim needs to look at integrated ticketing like a transfare ticket used to be...

We used to have the amazing. 638  Sunderland to Crawcrook visited everywhere but the kitchen sink but was a vital service

USE these Secured services as a hopper service aka if you board a Nexus secured service you can transfer to a "quicker service  at a connecting area FREE of charge" within 60 mins of the ticket purchase or 90 mins but a transfare must be asked to be validated

It means we can create services quicker

I remember that route - I remember on a Sunday when it got to Sunderland, it went down Grindon Lane at Mills (pub) and then along Somerset road and Springwell road then back on to Chester road.

----


The 537 was also another good route.

Oh the 537 VFM wasnt allowed to get bus to Hylton road as it was more expensive than thr jolly bus