(03 Mar 2026, 12:27 pm)OrangeArrow49 wrote No, that was my point. The 56 and 27 serve places along the route, they are not end-to-end Newcastle to Sunderland/South Shields routes. X24/X34 are designed for end-to-end journeys, which is covered by the Metro.

I have actually done the full 56 and 27 routes, and they aren't bad. But I wasn't saying to do that, I was saying get the Metro.

That mean the X77/X78 arent needed then, thats covered by the Metro to the Airport?

(03 Mar 2026, 7:23 pm)Malarkey wrote I had this in mind including serving Team Valley.

Aye could do, not going to lie I was thinking something like this and create new links in the Sunderland side rather than duplicating everything else



Could easily work with Nexus and get shot of the 99 or 599 because they're both not needed. The hospital links aren't great from the North side and it would fix some of the Pallion issues at the Northern side since the 10/11 changes ie. you don't have to go on a tour around the loop.

There's always the option of extending the 4 over to Boldon Asda from Downhill, to offer connections to services 30 to South Shields & X34 to Newcastle.

Unfortunately, the biggest problem I find with Stagecoach in the North East is there just is not any innovation by them to start new routes, unless of course they are heavily subsidised & contracted routes...

(03 Mar 2026, 9:27 pm)S830OFT wrote Unfortunately, the biggest problem I find with Stagecoach in the North East is there just is not any innovation by them to start new routes, unless of course they are heavily subsidised & contracted routes...

Apart from the X24 and X34 of course - where this discussion started, with the mad suggestion that they shouldn't exist...

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(03 Mar 2026, 5:28 pm)morritt89 wrote I live in the North of Sunderland and used the X36 a fair bit. It saved a trek to Southwick Green to get the 56 and was also quicker (or at least seemed quicker) than the 56 to Newcastle.

The issue, in my opinion, is that the estates that it went through (Carley Hill, Withereack, Redhouse and Downhill)  were dominated by Stagecoach.  I think if Stagecoach ran the X36 or an alternative Newcastle express via Sunderland North Estates (or even reinstate lost links with the 7 via Newcastle Road) it would be more successful.

I think this is the problem with a North Sunderland 'express' - unlike X24 where you can just head straight along Chester Road (pretty much the same as a car journey), not piddle around all the individual estates, for some reason that's exactly what seems to happen north of the river.  Weaving through the various council estates is always going to feel slow and circuitous.  If they wanted an express to work in that area, an X56 that runs North Hylton Road/Washington Road but then via FBP instead of a magical mystery tour of Washington and Gateshead would be more likely to appeal I'd guess.

(03 Mar 2026, 9:27 pm)S830OFT wrote There's always the option of extending the 4 over to Boldon Asda from Downhill, to offer connections to services 30 to South Shields & X34 to Newcastle.

Unfortunately, the biggest problem I find with Stagecoach in the North East is there just is not any innovation by them to start new routes, unless of course they are heavily subsidised & contracted routes...

The won't take the risk because (feel like a broken record here) why invest in sonething you're very likely going to have taken off you very soon?

Plus, the group is owned by an investment firm, who want it to look as good as possible on paper.

(04 Mar 2026, 4:43 am)F114TML wrote The won't take the risk because (feel like a broken record here) why invest in sonething you're very likely going to have taken off you very soon?

Plus, the group is owned by an investment firm, who want it to look as good as possible on paper.

That's true, although without risk you get the same old & that income is not always as guaranteed. For example, a new bus service being set up by a competitor happens to take all the usual Stagecoach passengers, or indeed just generally people finding alternatives, or indeed big retail businesses or places of employment/education leave the area. Then what...

Even though, between Sunderland and Newcastle I'd personally use the 56 or X24 over the Metro to commute, just a lot less stress in many ways, even if it means a slightly longer journey.

Some routes that I would love to see, but can't see happening anytime soon:

- Sunderland To Middlesbrough via Doxford International, Dalton Park and Easington Colliery then onto Hartlepool, Seaton Carew and Middlesbrough with an extension built onto service 1. Also allows peak service X1 to be withdrawn in the process...

- Seasonal Open Top Bus between Sunderland, Roker, Seaburn, Whitburn, Marsden Bay, Coast Road, Ocean Road and South Shields, which would be more direct than the E1 during the summer.

- Extending the X20/30 onto Heworth, Gateshead & Newcastle. The 30 originally went to Heworth around 2003 time, although would be nice to grow these routes & allow other parts of South Tyneside, including South Shields to have more of a direct link to Newcastle that isn't on-board one of those awful new Metro's.

- Coach Service between Newcastle and Edinburgh. I'm sure this would be very popular if promoted well & timed to fit when most people want to travel.

- More Express Buses at Peak Time - Generally Limited Stop. For example, an 'X39' between Newcastle and Dumpling Hall, possibly starting from a business park alike Cobalt or Quorum. These would be very beneficial for once the new Government buildings open up in Newcastle City Centre...

(04 Mar 2026, 4:43 am)F114TML wrote The won't take the risk because (feel like a broken record here) why invest in sonething you're very likely going to have taken off you very soon?

Plus, the group is owned by an investment firm, who want it to look as good as possible on paper.

Don't disagree, it's more the BSIP money which should've been to do stuff this sort of stuff. Like Northumberland has done with stuff like the 777 and X30. If they don't work then that's fine, but it was always worth a punt. 

It's better than imo, wasting it on stuff like the 1, 21 and 56. I know some will say that they have more of a chance but the vast majority of people, unless they have an extreme timetable obsession, really couldn't give a toss whether it's every 12 or 15 minutes. It's literally no difference and if the buses are at capacity, then there's clearly no need for tax payer funds anyway. 

Bonus points if you can get rid of some of the crap like the 99 in the process.

(04 Mar 2026, 12:15 pm)S830OFT wrote - More Express Buses at Peak Time - Generally Limited Stop. For example, an 'X39' between Newcastle and Dumpling Hall, possibly starting from a business park alike Cobalt or Quorum. These would be very beneficial for once the new Government buildings open up in Newcastle City Centre...

So... the X82?

Also most people get off along West Road apparently, speaking to Walker drivers.

(04 Mar 2026, 2:48 pm)F114TML wrote So... the X82?

Also most people get off along West Road apparently, speaking to Walker drivers.

Near enough. Although actually terminating at Dumpling Hall or Chapel House as say an 'X40' to give people living furthest away from the City Centre a more direct link during Peak Times. This would be particularly helpful when Stagecoach constantly allocate single decker vehicles onto the 12/22/39/40/62/63 it seems & the bus is most likely overcrowded very quickly, particularly at busy times.

A little like the SuperLoop in London, where the bus only stops at select stops, opposed to every single stop as a typical local bus. Also, if it were to be a successful initiative, something that may be feasible to operate during the day aswell...

(04 Mar 2026, 4:53 pm)S830OFT wrote A little like the SuperLoop in London, where the bus only stops at select stops, opposed to every single stop as a typical local bus. Also, if it were to be a successful initiative, something that may be feasible to operate during the day aswell...

So... the Fastlines?

(04 Mar 2026, 4:53 pm)S830OFT wrote Near enough. Although actually terminating at Dumpling Hall or Chapel House as say an 'X40' to give people living furthest away from the City Centre a more direct link during Peak Times. This would be particularly helpful when Stagecoach constantly allocate single decker vehicles onto the 12/22/39/40/62/63 it seems & the bus is most likely overcrowded very quickly, particularly at busy times.

A little like the SuperLoop in London, where the bus only stops at select stops, opposed to every single stop as a typical local bus. Also, if it were to be a successful initiative, something that may be feasible to operate during the day aswell...

There used to be an X80/X81 until early 2000s that operated to Dumpling Hall & West Denton Park that were withdrawn and then replaced by the 39 & 10!

(04 Mar 2026, 4:43 am)F114TML wrote The won't take the risk because (feel like a broken record here) why invest in sonething you're very likely going to have taken off you very soon? 

Plus, the group is owned by an investment firm, who want it to look as good as possible on paper.

But operators have had 30 years to take the risk and/or innovate.
The looming franchise agreement didn't exist back in the 80s or 90s.
There was no Kim McGuiness politics back in the 2000s and it was only in the 2010's, that QCS was mooted.

(04 Mar 2026, 7:47 pm)Andreos1 wrote But operators have had 30 years to take the risk and/or innovate.
The looming franchise agreement didn't exist back in the 80s or 90s.
There was no Kim McGuiness politics back in the 2000s and it was only in the 2010's, that QCS was mooted.

May be a bit of rose tinted memory here but to be fair I think in the 90s there was a fair bit of innovation, at least in terms of reacting to competition.  Even the 00s now dont seem that bad - to me it was around the 2010s onwards when the stupid hub and spoke model became king and the networks were really decimated by cutting anything that wasnt a high freqency corridor into a hub.  No idea how much of it was driven by the spectre of franchising/QCS/whever it was before that, but the timings certainly line up.

(04 Mar 2026, 5:57 pm)Coastliner700 wrote There used to be an X80/X81 until early 2000s that operated to Dumpling Hall & West Denton Park that were withdrawn and then replaced by the 39 & 10!

Didnt they become the 80/81 for a bit before complete withdrawl?

Yes they were withdrawn around late 2006 / early 2007.

80 - Kingston Park - Dumpling Hall - https://www.flickr.com/photos/gjm-photog...1846495403
81 - Hollywood Ave - Dumpling Hall - https://www.flickr.com/photos/gjm-photog...1846484708

(04 Mar 2026, 8:05 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote May be a bit of rose tinted memory here but to be fair I think in the 90s there was a fair bit of innovation, at least in terms of reacting to competition. Even the 00s now dont seem that bad - to me it was around the 2010s onwards when the stupid hub and spoke model became king and the networks were really decimated by cutting anything that wasnt a high freqency corridor into a hub.  No idea how much of it was driven by the spectre of franchising/QCS/whever it was before that, but the timings certainly line up.

I'm not sure painting a teenage bus blue and making the competition in Newcastle disappear was that innovative.
Greedy? Of course.
Like a dog marking it's territory and trying to scare away anything that comes close? Definitely. 

I've got the same opinion of goings on in Darlo too.

I remember the excitement of buses racing each other and drivers really buying in to the whole rivalry/must win at all costs mentality.
But innovative? Nah.

So the X24, X34 and X55 weren't innovative?

X55 did not last long enough to be able to determine it's full potential.

Also the fact it was a Saturday only route and just went to Greatham via Hartlepool, opposed to continuing to Stockton for all journeys may have had made it a little more successful, although would have then been competing with the X9/X10 & X12...

Hartlepool does desperately need more links. They had 5 buses p/h to Sunderland in 2019 (23/55/X6) - now nothing without changing buses at Peterlee, there is certainly an opportunity to put something in that gap. Same with a bus to Newcastle or indeed a faster bus to Durham that doesn't take 85 minutes alike the 24/58/59...

I recall when the Arriva 57A existed as a commercial route, it was seen as 'the fast bus' between Durham and Hartlepool taking just under 1 hour. I don't know how the 59 which directly replaced this route has got the extra 25 minutes from...

(05 Mar 2026, 8:11 am)S830OFT wrote X55 did not last long enough to be able to determine it's full potential.

Also the fact it was a Saturday only route and just went to Greatham via Hartlepool, opposed to continuing to Stockton for all journeys may have had made it a little more successful, although would have then been competing with the X9/X10 & X12...

Hartlepool does desperately need more links. They had 5 buses p/h to Sunderland in 2019 (23/55/X6) - now nothing without changing buses at Peterlee, there is certainly an opportunity to put something in that gap. Same with a bus to Newcastle or indeed a faster bus to Durham that doesn't take 85 minutes alike the 24/58/59...

I recall when the Arriva 57A existed as a commercial route, it was seen as 'the fast bus' between Durham and Hartlepool taking just under 1 hour. I don't know how the 59 which directly replaced this route has got the extra 25 minutes from...

The Hartlepool to Sunderland (direct)bus journey was far too long. I only used it when Northern Rail were on strike. Service 23 didn’t operate after 17.30 , so on match days returning, I was forced to change at Peterlee, another ball ache. The trains not perfect but it’s only 25 minutes.

(05 Mar 2026, 5:57 am)F114TML wrote So the X24, X34 and X55 weren't innovative?

They were new and different to what existed previously. 
But that's 3 routes.

Split the average over the last 40 years and you've got a potentially innovative route launched every 13.3 years.

(05 Mar 2026, 8:11 am)S830OFT wrote X55 did not last long enough to be able to determine it's full potential.

Also the fact it was a Saturday only route and just went to Greatham via Hartlepool, opposed to continuing to Stockton for all journeys may have had made it a little more successful, although would have then been competing with the X9/X10 & X12...

Hartlepool does desperately need more links. They had 5 buses p/h to Sunderland in 2019 (23/55/X6) - now nothing without changing buses at Peterlee, there is certainly an opportunity to put something in that gap. Same with a bus to Newcastle or indeed a faster bus to Durham that doesn't take 85 minutes alike the 24/58/59...

I recall when the Arriva 57A existed as a commercial route, it was seen as 'the fast bus' between Durham and Hartlepool taking just under 1 hour. I don't know how the 59 which directly replaced this route has got the extra 25 minutes from...

There's 2 TPH from Hartlepool to Sunderland / Newcastle and 1 TPH from Seaton Carew to Sunderland / Newcastle plus Grand Central on top of that. 

The connections should be to the train station with connecting tickets, not direct buses. Anyone sane is going to use the train as the bus is always going to take ages.

I know it's not Stagecoach, but there seriously needs to be a look at the 20/20A/X20/32/61/204/204A/208 though. 

Something like this:


Would be a hell of a lot better imo:

There's absolutely no need for 6 BPH from Durham to Sunderland doing the same corridor. The only losers are the Raintons who lose half there buses but they're small villages. Hopefully, see changes in the future because there's lots of corridors the same. The X6/23/61 being another one.

90's was a belta time for buses, virtually a bus to anywhere and how much was a dayrover, like £3/£4?, child single 25p adult single 90p/£1, i might only be 32 but its amazing what memories stick, also remember Chillingham Road  being saturated with buses and rarely ran late, and Heaton Road had more choice than just the 18 to a random bus terminal in Walker, and as much as i dont like Sunderland, its sad to see whats become of their virtually non-existent (Stagecoach) network

(05 Mar 2026, 9:50 am)Andreos1 wrote They were new and different to what existed previously. 
But that's 3 routes.

Split the average over the last 40 years and you've got a potentially innovative route launched every 13.3 years.

So now you think there has only been three "new" innovative routes in the North East since 1986?  Right...

(05 Mar 2026, 4:04 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote So now you think there has only been three "new" innovative routes in the North East since 1986?  Right...

No, I never said that. 

I referred back to the 3 examples that were shared.

But, if there were more, I'd love to hear about them.

(05 Mar 2026, 6:36 pm)Andreos1 wrote No, I never said that. 

I referred back to the 3 examples that were shared.

But, if there were more, I'd love to hear about them.

Not sure what point you are trying to argue here when you literally worked out an avergae of 1 in 13 years, or if you're just arguing as an end in itself.  

Make your own decision on what is or isnt innovative - my view remains that drereg through much of the 90s and in some ways into early 00s saw a heck of a lot more variety/choice/links/innovation/new services/trying new things than the period from 2010s onward.  Your view is different.  That's fine.

(05 Mar 2026, 8:22 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote Not sure what point you are trying to argue here when you literally worked out an avergae of 1 in 13 years, or if you're just arguing as an end in itself.  

Make your own decision on what is or isnt innovative - my view remains that drereg through much of the 90s and in some ways into early 00s saw a heck of a lot more variety/choice/links/innovation/new services/trying new things than the period from 2010s onward.  Your view is different.  That's fine.

I'm just trying to see/hear about these examples of innovation.
Nothing more. Nothing less. 

We've had 3 potentials so far.

(05 Mar 2026, 8:48 pm)Andreos1 wrote I'm just trying to see/hear about these examples of innovation.
Nothing more. Nothing less. 

We've had 3 potentials so far.

So a few examples of innovation for Sunderland from the period I mentioned - 5 to Boldon Asda, new routings serving East Herrington on 4/5, 17 (various incarnations), 21, open top 22, 25, open top 26 (and the more recent incarnation as 19), E3, E6, X1, X2, X27-X29, M39-M41.  All of these were introduced post rereg through the 90s with most creating new or faster links.  They survived varying lengths of time.  Compare that to the last 15 ish years.  You could argue the whole Favourite operation in County Durham is another example.  I am sure you can come up with many others from other parts of the region if you really want to see/hear more examples.

(05 Mar 2026, 9:02 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote So a few examples of innovation for Sunderland from the period I mentioned - 5 to Boldon Asda, new routings serving East Herrington on 4/5, 17 (various incarnations), 21, open top 22, 25, open top 26 (and the more recent incarnation as 19), E3, E6, X1, X2, X27-X29, M39-M41.  All of these were introduced post rereg through the 90s with most creating new or faster links.  They survived varying lengths of time.  Compare that to the last 15 ish years.  You could argue the whole Favourite operation in County Durham is another example.  I am sure you can come up with many others from other parts of the region if you really want to see/hear more examples.

The late 80s and most of the 90s did see loads of new services by Busways. I agree the last 15 years have been stagnant at best, with a managed decline . Pick up a PTE early 80s timetable or a 1990s Busways route map, or. gNE map ( recently purchased on EBay, just shows how much all have declined , along with GNE and Arriva. New entrants to the industry like GCT are absolute cowboys.

(03 Mar 2026, 9:27 pm)S830OFT wrote There's always the option of extending the 4 over to Boldon Asda from Downhill, to offer connections to services 30 to South Shields & X34 to Newcastle.

Unfortunately, the biggest problem I find with Stagecoach in the North East is there just is not any innovation by them to start new routes, unless of course they are heavily subsidised & contracted routes...

I’m a bit late jumping into the party but I’d heavily argue Stagecoach have showed the most commercial innovation out of all the major North East Operator's. The Seasider between NorthShields and Whitley Bay had great potential but thwarted by COVID. Obviously the X24 has been their major success story in recent years too. Although the X55 wasn’t a success they still made a go of it. And more recently as well the 37 to Cramlington seems to be performing relatively well too. Is there room for more? Absolutely. But as things stand Stagecoach have certainly taken more successful commercial innovative risks than any other North East Operators in the last decade. I’d argue the next step would be to introduce a Sunderland-Hartlepool-Middlesbrough service to bridge that gap, perhaps numbered X14 or X44 to help bridge the gap and allow for the Hartlepool 1 to be ran more efficiently.

(05 Mar 2026, 9:39 pm)220631612 wrote I’m a bit late jumping into the party but I’d heavily argue Stagecoach have showed the most commercial innovation out of all the major North East Operator's. The Seasider between NorthShields and Whitley Bay had great potential but thwarted by COVID. Obviously the X24 has been their major success story in recent years too. Although the X55 wasn’t a success they still made a go of it. And more recently as well the 37 to Cramlington seems to be performing relatively well too. Is there room for more? Absolutely. But as things stand Stagecoach have certainly taken more successful commercial innovative risks than any other North East Operators in the last decade. I’d argue the next step would be to introduce a Sunderland-Hartlepool-Middlesbrough service to bridge that gap, perhaps numbered X14 or X44 to help bridge the gap and allow for the Hartlepool 1 to be ran more efficiently.

Have to admit it did strike me as insane when in Eldon Square around the time of Hartlepool Tall Ships a couple of years ago seeing Nexus signs proudly stating "There are no direct bus services to Hartlepool" then giving you options of changes at Dalton Park or wherever.  I dont have a clue how direct/quick/frequent/cheap rail options are but the fact there's no direct bus service to key towns from cities like Newcastle and (even less links) Sunderland is testament to how inadequate the bus network is these days to support any meaningful level of modal shift.