(03 Jun 2026, 4:49 pm)Superman wrote The distances involved this time are much smaller than Newcastle to Blyth or Ashington for example. Plus, there isnt another operator in the immediate area to simply go and apply to (whereas Newcastle have Stagecoach and GNE in very close proximity). The next closest major operator is, also in Stockton.

Wouldn't be too convinced about that mind; Chester Le Street was the same, and Washington is a hell of a lot closer than Stockton is to Redcar.

There's plenty of HGV/LGV jobs around that neck of the woods too. It's not close at all imo.

(03 Jun 2026, 9:38 pm)Storx wrote Wouldn't be too convinced about that mind; Chester Le Street was the same, and Washington is a hell of a lot closer than Stockton is to Redcar.

There's plenty of HGV/LGV jobs around that neck of the woods too. It's not close at all imo.

I was comparing the situation with other bus operators directly, which makes it arguably different, but in any case those HGV jobs were always there (and they pay much more than a driver rate anyway) so if people wanted to go, they would have done that already.

From what I have seen and heard, the concerns regarding the closure appear to be more pronounced among political stakeholders than among actual employees. The majority of drivers seem neither supportive nor dis-engaged by the move, particularly as the closure package includes a permanent increase in pay amongst other benefits. Many little things not publicly mentioned, which is why you haven't seen Unite calling for strike action - for example (which was the case at Newcastle...). Read into that what you will.

Anyone have any info about what came about from the meeting

Does anyone have any theories over just why Redcar depot is unprofitable?

It runs the X4 which has recently got new buses and it busy. The 63 was always a core high frequency route.
The X2 and X3 serve parts of the area with no other services so presumably are fairly busy. Likewise the 64.

The depot is fairly newish, without much dead mileage.

What am I missing, where is the money being lost?

(05 Jun 2026, 8:08 pm)Superman wrote I was comparing the situation with other bus operators directly, which makes it arguably different, but in any case those HGV jobs were always there (and they pay much more than a driver rate anyway) so if people wanted to go, they would have done that already.

From what I have seen and heard, the concerns regarding the closure appear to be more pronounced among political stakeholders than among actual employees. The majority of drivers seem neither supportive nor dis-engaged by the move, particularly as the closure package includes a permanent increase in pay amongst other benefits. Many little things not publicly mentioned, which is why you haven't seen Unite calling for strike action - for example (which was the case at Newcastle...). Read into that what you will.

Aye that's fair can't argue from that view to be fair. I just meant in general, wouldn't be surprised to see some go because of reasons beyond money. The extra hour commute is quite a chunk, especially if they're already commuting for 20 minutes or so.

Obviously don't expect strikes etc because it's unreasonable really.

(06 Jun 2026, 8:18 am)tvd wrote Does anyone have any theories over just why Redcar depot is unprofitable?

It runs the X4 which has recently got new buses and it busy.  The 63 was always a core high frequency route.
The X2 and X3 serve parts of the area with no other services so presumably are fairly busy.  Likewise the 64.

The depot is fairly newish, without much dead mileage.

What am I missing, where is the money being lost?

Not saying it's unprofitable but the trains won't help, they've improved quite a bit on the Saltburn line in recent years plus the TPE trains getting extended to Redcar aswell.

A hour journey to Marske on the X3/X4 or a 20 minute every 30 minutes service on the train, ignoring pricing, is a very easy choice with the bonus the trains serves central Redcar and Saltburn anyway.

(06 Jun 2026, 8:18 am)tvd wrote Does anyone have any theories over just why Redcar depot is unprofitable?
It runs the X4 which has recently got new buses and it busy.  The 63 was always a core high frequency route.
The X2 and X3 serve parts of the area with no other services so presumably are fairly busy.  Likewise the 64.
The depot is fairly newish, without much dead mileage.
What am I missing, where is the money being lost?

Ignoring Whitby for a minute, Redcar is running at around 35 PVR from what I can see, and once you factor in full depot overheads, the numbers just don't really stack up.
You could make a similar argument for Stockton. It's around 46 PVR, but it's still carrying a full set of depot overheads, so it's not exactly in a strong position either.

Putting the two together into a single operation of roughly 80 PVR, while Whitby continues as it does now, is much closer to how most depots across the region are structured. That gives a more sustainable income base to cover depot overheads and wider central costs.

I've also heard that internal discussions have touched on potential electrification of the Tees Valley operation. If that's on the agenda, a single larger depot makes far more sense than trying to electrify two smaller sites. The biggest cost isn't usually the chargers or depot modifications, it's the grid connection, which can easily run into the millions.

None of this necessarily says anything negative about the routes themselves. It's more a case of the cost base not matching the scale of the operation. Arriva have already said no service changes are expected, and it probably also helps explain why the 28 and 81 were merged back in March.

(06 Jun 2026, 8:18 am)tvd wrote Does anyone have any theories over just why Redcar depot is unprofitable?

It runs the X4 which has recently got new buses and it busy.  The 63 was always a core high frequency route.
The X2 and X3 serve parts of the area with no other services so presumably are fairly busy.  Likewise the 64.

The depot is fairly newish, without much dead mileage.

What am I missing, where is the money being lost?

It might not be unprofitable, it might just be that they've looked at the costs of one bigger depot compared to two and they have shown it makes business sense to close Redcar.

Yes I guess that makes sense, just the wording they used about the Redcar depot specifically struggling to be profitable.

I know there’s been rumours for years of them looking for a site between the two depots to merge into one large depot, it’s a shame that couldn’t happen instead. Buses coming from further away can’t be a good thing for the East Cleveland area in the long run.

(06 Jun 2026, 11:01 am)Shrek wrote It might not be unprofitable, it might just be that they've looked at the costs of one bigger depot compared to two and they have shown it makes business sense to close Redcar.

tbf, passenger numbers are down 500k (15%) since pre COVID - https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teess...s-33684652

It's quite a hit really, when you can't do frequency reductions to cover it and that's before you go into fuel increases etc.

Chances are, with Redcar being a newer depot, they might just lease the land it's on rather than own it outright, whereas Stockton depot is probably owned by Arriva as it's been their operational base for god knows how long. So they could be leasing costs to consider, or if the depot isn't leased, it's probably easier to sell a more modern depot than an older one.

(06 Jun 2026, 9:36 pm)Rapidsnap wrote Chances are, with Redcar being a newer depot, they might just lease the land it's on rather than own it outright, whereas Stockton depot is probably owned by Arriva as it's been their operational base for god knows how long. So they could be leasing costs to consider, or if the depot isn't leased, it's probably easier to sell a more modern depot than an older one.

Arriva lease almost all their depot sites, all sold under the DB regime.

(06 Jun 2026, 10:36 pm)220631612 wrote Arriva lease almost all their depot sites, all sold under the DB regime.

Not true at all. Infact it's probably the other way around.

Redcar, Stockton, Blyth and Ashington are all fully owned.

Durham is leased. Darlington is half owned and half leased.